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This is a bit concerning for Game Bars!

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Brettster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brettster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: This is a bit concerning for Game Bars!
    Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:38pm
Some bars in Japan have been shut down for copyright violations by allowing customers to play games for free while charging for drinks!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nes4life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 1:08pm
What? You break copyright laws by charging for drinks in the same venue as allowing people to play home consoles for free? That’s crazy. Do they need copyright permission from the games publishers or the console publishers? I guess arcade machines are exempt?!

Edited by Nes4life - 13 Jun 2018 at 1:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonhughes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 1:12pm
I'd say it's a bit lame.

I wonder what's going to happen to all the retro exhibitions that go up around the country. Playing old retro software on old computers or new ones - are Konami, Sega, Namco, etc going to wade in. Where does this begin and end?

Shame on you for wanting to bring nostalgia to the public.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 1:37pm
Isn't this just part of every EULA on every PC & console game ever made? No commercial exploitation is allowed. Being free to play is irrelevant as the intent is to get people in to buy food and drink.

Arcade machines were made to be commercially exploited by their owners by their very nature, hence okay.

Pretty sure this is just a Japan industry thing, but then the games industry in general isn't really known for its fairness to end users.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 1:55pm

Thinking about it shops and businesses should not play music without paying for a license and could be sued for copyright infringement if they dont, in saying that every company I've worked for had a radio on in the work, what next no windows open while listening to the radio in a van.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonhughes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by lix lix wrote:

Isn't this just part of every EULA on every PC & console game ever made? No commercial exploitation is allowed. Being free to play is irrelevant as the intent is to get people in to buy food and drink.

Arcade machines were made to be commercially exploited by their owners by their very nature, hence okay.

Pretty sure this is just a Japan industry thing, but then the games industry in general isn't really known for its fairness to end users.


Same goes for the Expo events - they charge you to go in. Set up lots of old consoles for you to play. While hoping you will buy refreshments from the bar and buy merchandise off the traders. Is that any different - just because it's old stuff.

Spiteful mentality behaviour, if you ask me. We won't be earning anything off this so we'll make damn sure you won't either. You'd think it was promoting their industry to be honest - oh no you don't!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sbdesign Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 2:25pm
well come on look at it, the business make money from the games...
I agree with this it makes total sense, I don't like it but thats a different argument. 

Do you think you can set up a projector, put a dvd movie on, and then charge for drinks, and argue your not a cinema making money from the movie? exactly, and this is the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simonden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 2:34pm
You need a license, same with music, showing films, selling refreshments, etc...  Gaming events, gaming bars, arcades, etc.. that I know of have a license.

I suspect these were people trying to get around the licensing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RGP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 4:37pm
In the UK you don't need a license for video games (yet) - believe me, it'll happen in this money grabbing country but fruit machines are licensed under the gaming act.  

In the USA I believe there's a license for video games at a per machine per annum value depending on which state you are in.  The value changes based on your business model - eg pay per play vs entry fee.

The expo's we work for make nothing from sale of food/drink or from trader sales.  It's ticket sales and trader tables generally.

Like most un-naturally occurring things, if it smells like someone's playing god in the background - they probably are.

Music has license fees for public performance - which is extremely complicated.

Music videos have a separate license if they are played from a local hard drive but included in your business TV subscription (Sky etc) but you still need a PRS/PPL license for a bar for the audio side.

I'm all for artists getting their fee but i'm not for people asking you for it several times over.

Not sure really about the background on this in Japan but if the publishers think they can get away with it over there you bet your a$$ they'll try it here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flinnster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 5:00pm
Yep we have specific public entertainment licenses in place these days for people to use the games we make in shopping centre VR experiences, or special event day simulator experiences.
The companies involved running the 'event' pay us, the developer a fee for a fixed timeframe of use.
It's much the same as performance rights stuff on music, but less convoluted.

Of course for retro games where the license holder has disappeared or gone through multiple companies over the years... it's a bit of a minefield. Sounds like a very USA-centric litigation heavy idea to me.

Then again, any bar on a distant Greek island, you can watch a 'screener' rip of any current hollywood film release up on a projector, for free, just buy a pint or a coffee. So there is a huge difference between different localities and what is actually enforced on the ground.


Edited by Flinnster - 13 Jun 2018 at 5:02pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote griffo83x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 5:02pm
fukin slave planet, taxed to f**k on everything , uk will probably be next like james says 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ColinD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 8:14am
It could well be that the 'management' in Japan think it threatens the lucrative Packinko / Pachislo gambling parlours profits, so someone's had a quiet word with the government and got it nipped in the bud. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RGP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by ColinD ColinD wrote:

It could well be that the 'management' in Japan think it threatens the lucrative Packinko / Pachislo gambling parlours profits, so someone's had a quiet word with the government and got it nipped in the bud. 

And not to sound too conspiracy theorist but I would highly consider this as a reason.

Just to give it weight.  Recently something was obstructed from proceeding because of interference based on influential persons who it would potentially affect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jengineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 4:03pm
I think they probably could of got round it but the fact they are closing 3 bars down right at the end of their lease sounds like they'd probably had enough of them anyway or they weren't making a profit etc

they could of easily renewed their lease's on all 3 bars or even just one of them and done something else with the space and still sold drinks etc
ooooooh if I had the space (and the money) I'd have that...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote strykr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 10:50pm
Are these modern or retro games? Newly released games it seems fair tbh, crappy, but fair... If its retro games thats just ludicrous, its not like you can pop into rumbelows and buy manic miner anymore....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flinnster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by strykr strykr wrote:

Are these modern or retro games? Newly released games it seems fair tbh, crappy, but fair... If its retro games thats just ludicrous, its not like you can pop into rumbelows and buy manic miner anymore....


No but soon you'll be able to pay £14.99 for the priviledge of downloading an HD remaster, and playing it in VR.
(not an actual example, but you get what I'm saying)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miner2049er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 8:45am
Originally posted by john john wrote:

Thinking about it shops and businesses should not play music without paying for a license and could be sued for copyright infringement if they dont


I work in a school and we have a broadcast license so we can stream music and News in the Sixth Form common room.


Edited by miner2049er - 15 Jun 2018 at 8:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big10p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 9:05am
Originally posted by miner2049er miner2049er wrote:

Originally posted by john john wrote:

Thinking about it shops and businesses should not play music without paying for a license and could be sued for copyright infringement if they dont


I work in a school and we have a broadcast license so we can stream music and News in the Sixth Form common room.
How times have changed. All we had in our common room was a KitKat vending machine. Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote strykr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 9:06am
Originally posted by big10p big10p wrote:

Originally posted by miner2049er miner2049er wrote:

Originally posted by john john wrote:

Thinking about it shops and businesses should not play music without paying for a license and could be sued for copyright infringement if they dont


I work in a school and we have a broadcast license so we can stream music and News in the Sixth Form common room.
How times have changed. All we had in our common room was a KitKat vending machine. Ouch

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bods Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 9:12am
End of the day, someone that plays the games should have paid to buy it, just same as you paying a friend to borrow it, they are losing money on it them self if it's being passed around for free, copied rented etc etc
 
Same thing for Movies and Music, breaking copyright buy showing it in public place where other people can watch/listen to it
 
Same thing as Pirate radio playing songs, paying nothing
 
Seems to be the modern culture that no one cares about Copyright at all, think it's fine to make money from other peoples work, grates on me to be honest as it's literally everthing on ebay, people making their own car maker signs like BMW, Audi, Ford and think it's fine, even registered as Business seller on there, seen someone selling Cards they have made themselves, quite happy to copy Gordon Fraser Hedgehog's that are now owned by Hallmark and sell on ebay, copyright oh is that something that applies to me, only selling a few bits on ebay, disgrace it all is
 
End of the day, if you open a place like that and you haven't looked into the legal side of it, your pretty stupid
 
I agree to some extend, if it's old games, it's quite sad when half the companys are gone now that made them but they are still making money from others work, if it's stuff on emulators, they breaking the terms those guys set having done the work for free, so not only ripping off the game creators but sh*tting on the emulator creators too but most are just after quick easy money
 
Arcade machines where built to be played in public place so that's fine I guess, or like said it's no licence over here, but other Computer/Console games were made for private use
 
I always wondered where the law stands on selling music on 2nd hand market, specially when there selling older stuff for more money, as the artist isn't seeing anything after the initial sale, I've never bought many albums or CD's brand new
 
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