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Fluke 9100 video card

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andrew96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fluke 9100 video card
    Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 12:39am
Hi
Has anyone tried fitting a video card into a 9100 that's never had one?

I read that when you press the 'edit' key the 9100 sends a reset pulse out of the keyboard connector on pin 3 where it expects a response back on pin 2 as a data stream, this puts the unit in edit mode and  the unit displays something meaningful on the attached screen.

the problem I have is no pulse out on pin 3 when any front keys are pressed (tried all including edit key of course)

I have (using hyper terminal and a MAX232 chip) sent it keyboard data continuous at the right format and baud rate (as shown in the manual) and pressed 'edit' key, still wont go into edit mode (just says 'edit option not installed'). even tried booting it up while  sending keyboard data, still won't get it into edit mode

So what am i missing? is there a link somewhere on the motherboard to know its a programmers station?

I have built a video card but until I can get it into edit mode and get it to show something meaningful on the screen I cant release the pcb's. I have several people wanting them now and this project of building the video card has been ongoing since 2012 and would like to get it now finally sorted and completed

can anyone help?? It will help a lot of people if I can get it running

many thanks
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote porchy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 12:02pm
cant help here, im in need of a video card myself.
I cant see any links anywhere to enable or disable this.

Looking at the schematics the RESET line that goes to the video controller connector is the same reset for the CPU too.
I currently have the code in bits so will see if I can see anything there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 2:02pm
Cheers thanks for that,

The keyboard reset comes from output 7 of the plcc chip and keyboard input is pin 35, but it is not sending any low pulses on the keyboard reset nor seeing any data on the keyboard data input. I do have a video card inserted and the fluke is seeing it and initializing it on loading but when edit is pressed it is VERY quick to come up with 'edit option not installed' and nothing appears on the /kbreset line even though am sending keyboard data to the keyboard input to try and trigger it into seeing a keyboard and going into edit mode.the mainboard  have is revision G (the standard 9100a board (4 rom sockets which the middle 2 are used))

I am at a bit of a loss on how to get the unit INTO edit mode to see something meaningfull on the monitor

cheers and thanks
Adrew


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backflipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 5:43pm
What roms are you running? Make sure you have the most upto date, also do you have the latest software running, there are releases without the programming option.
You can trick the keyboard into thinking a keyboard is connected.


Edited by backflipper - 13 Mar 2016 at 5:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 9:50pm
V6 software and  the most up to date roms U46 and U47 (V5 I believe)

Think I have found the problem, it seems like the programmers disk was never loaded, so went to load this in and greeted by floppy disk fail noises! After spending  much time getting a pc to boot into dos and re doing the floppies I was still greeted by the floppy disk drive fail noise and the loading process aborted! eventually discovered the slider the head moves along was not as free as it should have been, removed the slider and cleaned it, heads now traveled lovely! tried reloading the programmers disk, still got errors that a file was inaccessible, no other message than that! went round the loop again of floppies and teledisk, still the same! ended up having to reformat the hard drive and starting again reloading everything including the programmers disk, this time success!! when I pressed edit it told me the keyboard was not fitted, so send data via hyper-terminal at the right baud configuration when pressing edit and tada it went into edit mode!! screen flashed a couple of times but remained  with nothing useful on screen! as this..... 




So a total failure, the video card is not going to work after all. time I binned this project now I think, far to much time spent on it already, hopefully someone else can take up the challenge and design and build one that does work

Many thanks
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 12:53am
That's a great shame. It does sound like you've done everything right and it's just not happy about the video card you've made
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 6:12am
yes, last week I went through every track and it matches the circuit diagram perfectly, so either there is something missing from the diagram or something was not drawn right in the first place by fluke. I read somewhere they messed up the dip switches on the main board for the ram on the diagram, so perhaps they missed something on the video card. whatever it is I have come to the end of what I can do now, spend enough on this project to get nowhere, for the money I could have bought a fully working card where as for the £300 or more spent to try and make one card I have nothing, (plus all the time spent on it) So time to stop I think and admit defeat. oh well....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 9:21am
Assuming I get a 9100A then I would be interested in trying to debug the video card that you have made so far to see if the problem can be resolved.

my longer term approach would be to replace most of the circuit on the card with an FPGA so you can do interesting changes like directly drive VGA from it instead of a normal monitor.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 11:05am
So can anyone tell me, with a video card installed, and the machine boots up and initializes the card, what does it display at that point BEFORE edit mode is entered? Picture anyone??

thanks
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 12:21pm
It's not that straightforward. It depends entirely on what you tell the fluke to do on boot. I have mine running some custom code that displays the currently attached POD and all it's settings, so that's what mine displays. And unfortunately it's been like that for 8 years so I can't remember what it does by default
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 3:38pm
Cheers and thanks, I was just interested in what it displays so I could try and fault find the board without having to have a pc connected to get it into edit mode. But the next step will be to make come kind of extender cable for the video board as it is impossible to monitor anything on it in situ! But i suspect more will  be some link somewhere left off the circuit diagram and that's why it don't work, if that is the case then no one stands a chance of making a board from the diagram. I have been through the board and all the tracks are as the circuit diagram and they were all brand new chips used from Farnell (except the 2674 and 2675 which was new of ebay but are the correct type (There are different ones))

the rom was burned containing this code, I suspect its right?? I have no way of telling!



well that's all I have to go on unless anyone can shed any light on it?

cheers
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 9:50pm
There seems to be not much comments on this subject, for those that do want to help  here is a pdf file I made, firstly the circuits from the manual, then the description of how it works, followed by the schematic I made in diptrace which took me some months to make, then the diptrace pcb maker takes the schematic and associated  component outlines for those chips and creates a rats nest which I then routed, so the schematic is the key, so if that's right then so will the traces! then followed by the 2674 and 2575 chip pages from the datasheets where you can see the different used for the dip devices.

so have a look and see if you can find any differences between the fluke schematic and mine!


Do comment!!!!!!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 10:10pm
well, from the pics you posted and the schematics I would say that the writes to the video controller are working, since you get a stable display. That would also seem to indicate that the video output circuit is basically working.

the bit that looks odd is that all characters are set to the same character,  so that leaves a few possibilities ....

it's always reading the same memory address for characters instead of traversing the screen

the fluke cannot write to memory properly, so when it writes to a location, the wrong data gets written (say addressing works, but data is not getting through)

the jumpers are conspiring to select the wrong block of eprom, there are some areas that do not look to have character data - need to load the character rom up in a graphic viewer to see what appears where ...

anyway some ideas to consider

ah, now you have added your version, will check that for possible problems in the areas I mentioned!


Edited by Macro - 19 Mar 2016 at 10:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 10:23pm
Cheers Macro, I was thinking the same on the rom, but to really test further I now need somekind of extender card as it is impossible to get a scope probe anywhere near the board when in the machine!

Yes when the 9100 is turned on the screen is blank, it loads the software then when saying 'initializing' the screen changes and up pops the pic I have posted, that's why I wondered what it shows on a good working machine but no one seems to know.

I have suspected the rom data, but again have no way of knowing if the copy I found is a good dump, but have no way of knowing as no checksums were posted with the rom.

Cheers and many thanks for your reply

Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 10:29pm
Now I come to think of it - I think the answer you're looking for is that it boots to a blank blue screen of the colour you show in your pic, just without the stripes.

And I didn't realise that there was a ROM involved. Let me dump the ROM and compare to what you have. Give me half an hour...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 10:34pm
Oh Cheers mr Guddler, no big rush but that would be fantastic! its a 27c128 rom

Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 10:44pm
The ROM verifies fine...

I must admit the contents look a bit odd, but I guess it's not code!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 10:50pm
actually, looking again at the crtc connections it doesn't make sense!

I don't know that controller in detail, but it uses DADD00-10 to select the memory location (for the character data)  then feeds that data to the eprom to select the pixel data - OK so far, but it then re-uses DADD04-07 to select which line of the character data - that bit makes no sense to me

I need to look at the character rom in a suitable program along with a data sheet for that controller and see what it is up to!

ok, ignore the above, it multiplexes the lines between character address and row - in fact all of the data lines have a dual purpose! (nothing like a 6845)



Edited by Macro - 19 Mar 2016 at 11:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 10:57pm
AH cheers many thanks for looking at the rom, I guess its some kind of look up table and not code data, there is a explanation of how it works in the rar file  posted (had to compress to rar as could not post pdf)
Have not yet gone into detail on the how it works section as yet as have been concentrating on the pcb being right for now.

Many thanks again
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backflipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2016 at 10:10am
On the video card there is a jumper that selects either black and white video or colour, which position are you in as it aeffects the video pinout.
Also what are you uising to capture/display the video? It outputs inverted composite sync plus normal R,G and B.
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