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Model 3 wont boot

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Kev A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Model 3 wont boot
    Posted: 18 Mar 2019 at 11:10am
A little bit of information I discovered the other day I thought it would be useful sharing here.

The additional test some games have is called the boundary scan test,   As Vamino mentions above its present on the Virtual On board and also D2 PE, I have also discovered that it is also present on Virtua Striker 2 99.

I don't know about the other boards, but on VS2 99, it’s possible to boot into attract mode and access the boundary scan test without the security board in place, I ran the boundary scan tests twice once with the security board in place and once without it, and the results are the same.




Edited by Kev A - 18 Mar 2019 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 9:49am
Little update to provide closure to this thread, ended up buying a replacement CPU board from the Chinese fella on eBay, I figured it was a 50/50 chance it was CPU board related, and being the cheaper board it was worth a shot. The replacement CPU board seems to have fixed the issue, the board now boots reliably even from cold, although the graphics glitches still remain, its in a playable state.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 1:44pm
Bit of an update here, hot air station arrived and have been having a bit of a play around with it. Have replaced the 2 srams nearest the battery, which didn’t seem to make any difference, and replaced the Ram chip ic17 on the CPU board, this one was showing as bad in the test screen and is now showing as good; however, this hasn’t improved anything as far as I can see.



I did also spot something which may be the cause of these on going issues, when the stack was on the worktop minus the rom board I noticed the pcb legs didn’t seem to be sitting flush on the worktop, with additional weight of the Rom board all the legs sit flush, I removed the middle leg supporting the centre of the stack and it looks to be fractionally longer than the other PCB legs.



This post supports the board near ic62, which according to the Australian fellas guide is a depth buffer ram and its failure can cause horizontal lines through some textures, which is the issue this stack has always had.



With this post removed and light pressure applied to the board, the texture issues disappear.



My thinking is perhaps this longer post had applied pressure to the chips on the video board and upset the solder joints, with the rest of the pcb legs bolted down securely, even the slight difference in height could flex the board, unfortunately reflowing the pins on ic62 doesn’t seem to have made any improvement so I don’t think it’s an issue with the pins, there are also 2 bga’s relatively close and I’m now thinking that perhaps they have contact issues, that would explain why the board seems to boot fairly reliably when its warm, but takes many attempts to boot from cold, but I don't think there is any way I have the skills to fix that.



Edited by Kev A - 17 Dec 2018 at 1:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 11:19am
Cool thanks for the tip, I have ordered a rom burner so that might be an option going forward. D2 PE has additional tests in the service menu, the TGP test and the boundary scan tests, which might prove useful, but I cant get that board to boot.
I have read through that doc the Australian fella made and have found a couple of bits of info there that may prove useful.

This stack has always had an error when running the memory test on ic17, its not clear exactly what this relates to, I had always assumed that this was a RAM on the video board and that is what was causing my weird green lines glitch, however looking at that doc he has experienced a very similar error, and the cause was RAM chips on the video board with completely different IC numbers, he does state that when these chips die complexly the stack wont boot, so I guess its possible that my video board could also be the issue.

IC17 also exists on the CPU board, perhaps this error I get relates to that chip instead. The fella who wrote the doc does mention them specifically as scroll RAM, and indicates these can cause malloc errors on boot, and cause the game to crash.

I have ordered a cheapo hot air rework station and I think my plan is to replace the two SRAMS near the battery (I already have these, and a broken CPU board from Mo)

If this doesn't help I'm going to swap out ic17 on the CPU board with one from the other faulty CPU board and go from there.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vamino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2018 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Kev A Kev A wrote:

Bit of an update here, got a faulty SR2 ROM board from Mo, and swapped the ROMs over to my Daytona board (turned out the ROM board was busted but the ROMs are fine) and whilst I'm still getting a black screen when I first power it on, after leaving it a couple of mins and cycling the power it boots up and plays fine. So I'm a bit unsure what to think. But at least its playable again.



Cool, glad you found out what one of the issues was.

It seems if these boards have not been kept cool then all it takes is a knock for them to throw errors. I had a D2 that I reshelled and when it came to playing it the GPU had a fault on boot up which then disappeared when it warmed up. Money down the drain by just moving the stack!

One thing to be aware of is that Virtual On : Oratario Tangram has additional service menu self test/s not found in any other game. Andy geezer showed me that a while back but I can't remember what test/s they are.

I managed to source a V.O.O.T security board and will get some roms burned when I get a reader/some roms. Andy actually has a couple of Virtual On 2/V.O.O.T security boards in his webshop, so if you are in for the long haul regarding Model 3 then owning a V.O.O.T sec+rom kit may be something that helps track down faults in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 11:07pm
Chipquick is a bit hit and miss and the cleanup is annoying as you dont want it anywhere near fresh solder

Buy one of those air stations you wont regret it i use mine all the time now :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 8:52pm
I keep looking at those hot air stations. Glad to hear they work well enough. I have ordered some srams and was going to attempt changing them over using chipquick. But now its sort of working again im kinda hessitant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 8:38pm
If you have a hot air station the s rams are very easy to replace
You can use that chipquick stuff if not but i would buy one of those cheap ebay hot air stations 505d i think mine is
great tool to have if you are trying to repair surface mount stuff
Worth a try if the boards knackered anyway

Edited by robotech - 06 Dec 2018 at 8:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 5:16pm
Bit of an update here, got a faulty SR2 ROM board from Mo, and swapped the ROMs over to my Daytona board (turned out the ROM board was busted but the ROMs are fine) and whilst I'm still getting a black screen when I first power it on, after leaving it a couple of mins and cycling the power it boots up and plays fine. So I'm a bit unsure what to think. But at least its playable again.



Edited by Kev A - 06 Dec 2018 at 5:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 9:21am
Originally posted by robotech robotech wrote:

All the naomi boards i have owned i removed the supercap
I dont know what it does as they all work fine without it

Another cpu board shouldent be too expensive unlike the step 2 video boards
Unless you want to put the hours into that cpu board for fun/enjoyment



Its just to provide power to the srams when you change the coin battery, so Sega making things overcomplicated.
To be honest it was a long shot being the only thing in that area that is easily replaced and their tendency to leak I thought it was worth a try.

Bonehead is going to look through his spares to see if he has a spare D2 stack for me, I have ordered 2 srams, but I'm a bit worried about installing them, but then if the boards buggered anyway it might be a good chance to learn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 12:37am
All the naomi boards i have owned i removed the supercap
I dont know what it does as they all work fine without it

Another cpu board shouldent be too expensive unlike the step 2 video boards
Unless you want to put the hours into that cpu board for fun/enjoyment

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 10:20pm
Cool thanks for the help guys, hopefully have a quiet day at work tomorow and i can read theought that guide. Looka like it may be usefull. Interesting you have had stacks that would play SR2 but not daytona, as thats what it was running originaly and apart from a slight graphics glitch was working ok
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vamino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 8:31pm
Daytona 2 is the game that shows if your boards are 100% stable and error free. Boards that I thought were OK wouldn't boot Daytona 2 or would randomly throw various errors. 

I'm with Bonehead, that fault looks to be a CPU board issue. I had a stack that would play Sega Rally 2 but had issues with Daytona 2.

I did come across this guide on my travels surfing the internet, maybe you could ask the author of that guide for some pointers?



Edited by Vamino - 29 Nov 2018 at 8:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 8:26pm
Ok so I got 3v on the vcc pins of the srams nearest the battery, increasing to 5v when booted ao im sure they are getting power. Also double checked continuity in that area and dint find anything. Short of replacing the srams im not sure there is much else I can try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big10p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by Kev A Kev A wrote:

Supercap replaced and still no change, think I'm going to double check all the continuity in that area, if the battery is installed should I be seeing voltage on the vcc pins of the srams all the time?
I imagine so, else the settings would get wiped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 4:54pm
Supercap replaced and still no change, think I'm going to double check all the continuity in that area, if the battery is installed should I be seeing voltage on the vcc pins of the srams all the time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 10:56am
Yeah I couldn't find much info on the supercap regarding model 3, but I assume its similar to the Naomi, it doesn't boot either with the supercap removed but I think I will replace it anyway when the new one arrives, its easy enough to get to so may as well. If that doesn't work I'm kind of out of ideas where to look next, I think the chances of me being able to sucessfully replace any of the surface mounted components is pretty slim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big10p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 10:37am
Can't speak for model 3, but on a regular NAOMI 1, I'm pretty sure all the super cap does is allow the coin battery to be changed, without wiping the settings RAM. I believe you can remove the super cap and the board will run fine without it.

Edited by big10p - 27 Nov 2018 at 10:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 10:31am
Yeah I took it off to check and re do the solder, looked ok, don't suppose I could use a normal cap to test, or is there something special about the super cap?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big10p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 10:22am
Have you de-soldered the super cap to check it? Last one I replaced looked fine, but was badly corroded underneath. If this has happened to yours, it may have damaged traces.
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