ukVac.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Artwork and Restorations
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Warlords - MAME Build
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Skin:


Warlords - MAME Build

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Warlords - MAME Build
    Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 4:25pm
Another arcade project, born out of beer and curry...This time I wasn't goaded into building something, it was a discussion about the best multi-player arcade games after a few hours in a bar called PimpShuei (http://www.pimpshuei.co.uk/) playing Puzzle Bobble, 2 player...Very good fun..

Long story short, I used to play Warlords as a kid in North Wales arcades, so I thought I'd try and build that. My wife isn't keen on "large blue boxes" (Donkey Kong) so I thought I'd try and build something that might fit in the house and stand a better chance of staying put.

To this end, a few sketches of a 4 player Warlords, "stand up" machine...That will be built more akin to a furniture project, like a tall card table!



The grey blobs are people, stood up at the table, spinner in the middle, possibly with button on the left hand side, as each person protects a corner. As you'll be stood slight to the left (if you're right handed) I didnt think the player needed a spinner on the corners, as you'll be stood on your corner anyway.



Started to sketch out how the box would look, obviously without the joystick above. Setting myself up for some painful maths for various compound mitre cuts..



After several months of messing about with drawings and chatting...drinking tea..chatting...I have started to build the prototype from above sketch. Not sure on rounded corners as yet...But the "tray" underneath with the bevel edges seems ok..



Cross section above.The LCD to the right, some sort of glass on the top, 4 x spinner or potentiometers and then somehow, probably screwed to the control panels, will be the Raspberry Pi3, APAC controller for the pots, and some other bits...There is a brilliant article on getting pots set up wth the APAC HERE which is where I learnt everything I know about pots and mame. The guys there did some amazing work, I'm just hanging on their coat tails here.



And then above, first prototype to see what things look like. The tray at the bottom is 50mm high and at a 7 degree angle, bevelled. It probably needs to be 55mm, as the LCD depth on the ACER 1717 monitor causes issues. You can see the mock up control panel (also 7 degree tilt/bevel what ever it should be called) and 200mm in depth. That feels a little too big at 200mm so might bring that down to 150mm which gives enough for your hand to rest on when turning the "knob"



Cut down the control panel prototype to 150mm, seems ok. Rounded the corner, not yet convinced, but I'd like a nod to the original, so thinking I might round in the screen corners.



If you look on the left hand side, under the CP, you'll notice I added a 10mm shim, to lift it all up slightly and stop the control panel touching on the edge of the LCD. I quite like the idea of having to "look into" the machine. Its the thing I love about arcade machines the most!



And thats the final pic really, which shows the side view of the prototype...And as far as my thinking has gone..

I have managed to get the potentiometer working in Mame with an Ultimarc APAC. As I mentioned above, the hard work for that belongs to someone else, the post is HERE


There is a VERY long way to go... Smile And welcome all and any help! I haven't seen a Warlords since 1983, but I am planning to head to the North West this weekend, so a trip to AC might be in the offing!



Edited by biglouie - 19 Oct 2017 at 7:58pm
Back to Top
neil1637 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Location: cumbria
Status: Offline
Points: 2486

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neil1637 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 5:13pm
It's a great 4 player game. Had some good games on the one at AC.

All looks great so far too. I do love to see a bit of woodwork! Nothing quite like an angled bevelled splice joint to get the juices flowing!

Please visit my Arcade Diary Blog at https://neilsarcadediary.wordpress.com/

Always looking for Cabaret Cabinets
Back to Top
Hurray Banana View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

5 Years of Supporting ukvac.com!

5 Years of Supporting ukvac.com!



Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Location: Grays Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 68528

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurray Banana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 5:57pm
What's the viewing angle like with the lcd in that position?. Woodworking looks good so far :)
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 6:17pm
That's a very good point!

That's the next thing to check I guess. The Lcd is a freeby, so it hasn't been chosen for its spectacular viewing angle specs :) as long as the viewer is high enough over the top of it, it might be ok? And I can possibly crank up the brightness too?

The monitor is an Acer 1717, chosen for its exceptional value proposition.. Smile SPEC

It claims Horizontal and vertical viewing angle of 150, I need to work out what that actually means, but I am assuming it means its viewable (to some degree or other) in the range of 150 degrees, maybe 75 degrees off the middle mark each way.

Only way to know is to give it a go! Its going to be rubbish isn't it....


Edited by biglouie - 19 Oct 2017 at 7:04pm
Back to Top
big10p View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Location: Somerset
Status: Offline
Points: 3402

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big10p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 7:21pm
...er, probably, I'm afraid. These old 4:3 LCD panels are often pretty crap, compared to newest tech LCDs. Take the stated viewing angles with a pinch of salt, and lookout for horrific motion blur!
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 7:51pm
So....With the monitor at height of 80cm from the floor and with the player stood where they would need to be, the monitor performs really well, very bright, if you move a step back, its goes dark, but for the purposes of this, I think its ok.

What is a bit strange, is the game is obviously meant to have two people side by side, on opposing sides. So I need to decide if the idea of 4 players on 4 different sides is, in fact, a little bit odd! When the prototype is up and running, we'll be able to create 2 different control panels and see which one players prefer.

Thanks for the woodwork compliments. Smile


Edited by biglouie - 19 Oct 2017 at 8:00pm
Back to Top
virtvic View Drop Down
Senior Members
Senior Members
Avatar
The Cabaret King

Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Location: Whitton, Midlsx
Status: Online
Points: 5956

Feedback: 4.714285714285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virtvic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 4:36pm
I'm now following this with interest...

THE PENCE IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!

Check out the podcast

http://tenpencearcade.co.uk
Back to Top
Danscu View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Location: Bournemouth
Status: Offline
Points: 3473

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danscu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by virtvic virtvic wrote:

I'm now following this with interest...


Me too.  I have been thinking about doing something similar for quite a while (especially considering how much a dedicated Warlords costs).

You are doing a great job so farThumbs Up
Looking for:)

Electrocoin Goliath Mk 3
Sega Shootout Pool marquee
Space
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 5:09pm
After seeing ukvac all round top bloke Jon hughes to get My Galaga board fixed, I have just driven to Bury to see a Warlords in action at Arcade Club. Circa 300 miles! My wife wants me dead.

Much smaller screen than I recalled (warlords, not wife). But the winner for me today was a little wood effect cabaret with Pacman in it. Lovely little cab.


I'll stick some updates on later in the week, after I wire it up. I'm going to need Linux help I think..
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 4:48pm
A little update, If anyone can help me, it would be appreciated.

I am trying to make an optical spinner, basically. I dont want to spent 70 quid on an Optimarc because I need 4 for this Warlords project, so if I can find a cheaper way, it will save a few quid.

Right now, I cant get the Rotary Encoder inputs to be seen by the raspberry pi as an input device, via the Optipac. Its either dead on arrival (the rotary device is cheapo HERE) or I am not understanding (strong possibility)

I have an Ultimarc Optipac hooked up to Pi via USB, and an optical rotary encoder (5v to 12v) hooked up to the optipac. I can see 5v on my meter if I GND and then check the 5v pin. I can get nearly 5v if I GND and check the X1 pin and ZERO if I check the X2 pin. Presumably those X1 and X2 pins are the inputs from the rotary device. In fact, I know they are, I've taken the little foffer to bits.. White is VCC 5v, black GND and red and green x1 and x2.



I assume the 5v (white) from the Optipac is for the LED in the rotary encoder. I can see 5v inside the rotary off the white cable with meter.

When I look for readings in Linux, advmame/bin/advm tool, I get zero inputs.

I opened up the encoder, I cant see any light in there (maybe its infra red?). Does anyone know if I should be able to see light inside? I tried to see if its IR with the mobile phone camera trick, but I get nothing. So maybe this device is dead!

Maybe the 5v provided by the optipac isn't enough to light it up? It does say it operates between 5v and 12v. If I stick a 9v battery on the leads and get 9v maybe that will show me some light inside? Dunno if there is meant to be any visible light!

If anyone knows about these rotary devices, would be great to work out if its DOA before I go further.
Back to Top
Macro View Drop Down
Senior Members
Senior Members
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 1999
Location: Norfolk, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2976

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Macro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 5:21pm
one optipac will work with all 4 spinners

basically, on a spinner, the voltage powers the infra-red LEDs (you can see this with some video cameras) and you get pulses on the X1 and X2 lines when the gaps let the light through - depending on what order you get pulses that shows the direction you are moving, and the time between pulses shows the speed it is moving. (X1 and X2 are outputs from the device, and definitely should not be connected to GND

if you wish to use a pi instead (and why not, it's cheap enough!) - then do a search on 'quadrature decoding' or similar, should hopefully explain it all.

as a sideline, 600 pulses per rotation is very high, a normal spinner is probably something like 20-40, may be worth asking if the optipac can actually cope with that many (except I just realised it is geared, so it will be much more than that! - maybe even 600 LOL)



Edited by Macro - 25 Oct 2017 at 10:17pm
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 5:49pm
Thanks Macro. I'll check on the pulses side of things, I think the Ultimarc Spinner does 1200 (?) pulses, so I assume Optipac can handle at least that speed.. I cant see any IR in the device itself, with camera phone) so I'm not entirely sure the device I have is even working. :-)

I rigged up a simple rotary device to the optipac, and I can then see inputs coming in, albeit, not an optical device, it troubleshoots the optipac out of it a bit.

With regards quadrature decoding, do you think that it might be possible to do away with the optipac and have something on the pi itself, reading each optical spinner? I better get reading!


Edited by biglouie - 25 Oct 2017 at 6:20pm
Back to Top
Macro View Drop Down
Senior Members
Senior Members
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 1999
Location: Norfolk, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2976

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Macro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 10:19pm
as long as the Pi can read the pulse chain quick enough then it should be possible

p.s. modified my last post as I forgot the gearing on the trackball / spinner!

Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 10:43pm
I've decided to park the optical side of things for a while. The cheapo encoder I bought (for 8 quid!!) is probably not working.

I think I'll focus on getting the 4 pots working in advmame, and move things on from there and come back to optical later.
Back to Top
Judder View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1741

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Judder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 11:35am
Guddler a while ago rigged up a Tron spinner to an Arduino to do some basic testing with that - I've managed to dig up the thread here


I was reading this a while ago as I needed to test mine, and you can probably easily port this code into a Mame driver, although I haven't looked at the Mame control drivers since I did a Parallel port interface years ago Big smile


Edited by Judder - 26 Oct 2017 at 12:16pm
http://www.thedefenderproject.com/
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 10:54pm
Thanks Judder. I'll have a read of that. It would be much more cost effective if we could find some reasonable (working) rotary optical encoders and could do away with the need for a Multimarc Optipac. Really adds cost in.

Got 2 pots and buttons working today


And also had a go at the top control panel today.



Whats clear now is that the depth of the original "tray" that this sits in, will need to be deeper. I've gone to a 15inch DELL LCD, after seeing the 14" CRT in the real Warlords at AC. The screen doesn't feel like it needs to be 17", which I had used. Issue is, the 15" is slightly deeper than the 17" Acer and the viewing angle reports to be worse. Needs a test. But it it does have 4 USB ports on it which are handy for powering the Pi and the HDMI to VGA adapter. (tried HDMI to DVI as the Dell has DVI. No joy, if anyone has experience of Dell LCD and DVi and Pie, would be great to hear how you got on)

I also made a quickie test rig control panel to see if I could work out how it will be wired.



This is working on advMame 0.94. I cant get it working on advMame 3.5 or 1.4 for some reason. If anyone can shed any light, it would be amazing. Not sure we need later advmame versions for this?

I am making notes of all the settings and bits and bobs, so I'll write it all up properly when I've worked  as much as I can, incase anyone wants to move it on a bit.

Dead spot at the centre of the pots as well..Dont know why that is..Not sure if its the APAC controller or the POT itself? Any help there would be magic.
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 7:53am
By way of a quick update. 


Cabinet built, needs testing now as a player mechanism, with a player on each side. Might be weird?

That viewing angle needs some testing too..




The wiring was fair straight forward, as there are currently only 4 buttons. I do need a soft power up and down for the Pi somewhere. Not sure which to use as yet. I will have it set to free play and have the Pi b oot directly up into Warlords if I can manage it.

But it works, sort of.

Left to do is

- Soft on and off for Pi

- Work out why the Dell monitor suddenly has no USB power from the 4 USB ports. They were fine and crucial as I am powering all the elements inside off the Dell internal USB power supplies. Apart from it being 15" it was the reason for using this work horse of a monitor!

- Quick changes to the Pi config.txt to make the monitor default to HDMI. At the moment, as the HDMI to VGA adapter powers after the Pi boot sequence, the monitor wont display a picture. Maybe there is another device for this, that takes its power from some other way?

- Wire in the power inside from outside.

 - Auto start script so it boots to Warlords not RetroPie

- FIX THE DEADSPOTS at the centre of each pot. 

The last one being most critical!



Edited by biglouie - 31 Oct 2017 at 7:55am
Back to Top
1500points View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 01 Nov 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 38

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1500points Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 4:18pm
Well Hello My friend from across the pond!
Layout looks great.

My pots don't exhibit any dead spot in the center, but i did set the analog speed way down so it was easier to block the fireball without passing it by.

I used Dell monitor which does ok for side viewing.
The 2 players facing the monitor (standing toward the bottom of the monitor face) have better view, than the 2 players who are viewing the monitor from the backside (facing the top of the monitor)
Back to Top
biglouie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 269

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biglouie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 10:27pm
Hi there 1500points! Thanks again for all your work on the pots as joysticks investigation. Absolutely brilliant.

The deadspot is an issue. I see it in advj too, so I dont think its a RetroPie effect, it must be an advmame effect if its software, it maybe just be the pots themselves. I think, if I hook them up to a meter, I will probably see the resistance change and halt if it has dead spots. All 4 of mine do it, maybe they have a middle point where they go dead. In which case, I'll need to get new ones!

EDIT: I did this and as expected, the pots dont have a deadspot on the hardware itself. So something is a foot in the software! Smile

Did you need to look at APAC settings at all? I use a MAC so havent actually looked into that part of it, all just seems to work..

Oh I meant to ask, did you get your project booting successfully into advmame single ROM. I saw you asked the question in another forum, because it was going to an error? Assume you resolved it? :)


Edited by biglouie - 01 Nov 2017 at 11:04pm
Back to Top
strykr View Drop Down
Senior Members
Senior Members
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Location: Eastbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 10434

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote strykr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 10:29pm
Cool project this, had fun at arcade club with a few people playing this. 
Great work so far Approve 
Wanted - Electrocoin Wheels Runner Cabinet http://tinyurl.com/oq6dkau
Badlands & Champ sprint TG mame WR holder
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.234 seconds.