Best JAMMA loom solution?

[Brettster]

There are a few options for what you want to do.

Taito made an official converter for Jamma to VGA to be used in their Vewlix Cabs. this works as intended but they are incredibly rare and thus expensive now, you are looking at £500+ for a kit!

https://www.arcadespareparts.com/taito_spare_parts/taito_parts_z9351080a_vewlix_jamma_kit.html

A much more reasonable priced option is to use an extremely cheap (and crappy) GBS board designed to convert Jamma signals into VGA, this is only for the picture and you would need to route sound from a Jamma harness into your cabs speakers, actually very easy from a real CPS board as they have built in amps

GBS boards are around £20 and work but are not great, HOWEVER! there is a way to replace the software they run and convert them to GBS Control and this makes them excellent! with very low lag and lots more options for a fantastic picture

https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-control

if you are handy enough to build a flat pack bartop cab, install a monitor and Jamma Harness / PSU etc then you'll have no problem converting a GBS board with the above!

at the end of the day, you will most likely spend so much time and effort getting this setup and working and still be disappointed on how a Jamma board looks on an LCD monitor, that you will end up craving a CRT anyway!

Good Luck

 

[edd_jedi]

My requirements may seem unusual, the reason I want to use real PCBs is gameplay accuracy - I don't want any dropped frames, lag, inaccurate rendering etc. I want to play CPS1 and CPS 2 fighting games, so accuracy and lag are top of my list (and also why I am going to buy Sanwa joysticks etc.)

I am planning to try all of the kit 'out of the box' before committing to building the cabinet, I have already tried hooking up my Neo Geo to this Dell monitor and using the OSSC for upscaling and adding scanlines I am very happy with the picture, will take a photo next time I set it up. I already have a CPS2 game and the OSSC, I'm just waiting for a cheap Supergun I ordered to arrive so I can test the setup before proceeding.

edd_jedi2022-12-30 08:16:46

 

[edd_jedi]

GBS boards are around £20 and work but are not great, HOWEVER! there is a way to replace the software they run and convert them to GBS Control and this makes them excellent! with very low lag and lots more options for a fantastic picture

https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-control

Thanks for the suggestion, I already found GBSC boards while doing this research, does look like a good option but I already have an OSSC so may as well use that.

 

[RaveN]

I used an Amiga monitor in my small woodie they de-case well and run at 15K. Think I got if of gumtree for about £60

I personally did not want the fuss of real boards and could not afford them

I must admit my really low res older monitor that I run a pc off in another cabinet is fine and a lot less hassle than a real CRT !

Each to their own.

We often hear about CRTs being "unreliable" or "hassle", which is simply rubbish.

There's no statistics to back this up at all. My space invaders cab is on the original LOPT and is now 43 years old. My medres CRT is 28 years old and running, one of my vector monitors is 42 years old and still going. And yet my expensive 27" PC LCD screen has had 2 new replacement internal psus within 8 years.

So why are CRTs unreliable? It's like when people think that cheap Chinese SMPS are "more reliable" than traditional linear supplies that have lasted 30 years and just need a simple transister changing, it's ridiculous, and fueled by people that think more modern cheap Chinese stuff is somehow more reliable (it isn't).

 

[edd_jedi]

We often hear about CRTs being "unreliable" or "hassle", which is simply rubbish.

There's no statistics to back this up at all. My space invaders cab is on the original LOPT and is now 43 years old. My medres CRT is 28 years old and running, one of my vector monitors is 42 years old and still going. And yet my expensive 27" PC LCD screen has had 2 new replacement internal psus within 8 years.

So why are CRTs unreliable? It's like when people think that cheap Chinese SMPS are "more reliable" than traditional linear supplies that have lasted 30 years and just need a simple transister changing, it's ridiculous, and fueled by people that think more modern cheap Chinese stuff is somehow more reliable (it isn't).

I assume people are saying they are unreliable now, not in relation to their entire lifespan. For example a 50 year old car would be deemed as high risk of breakdown, even though it's "still going" long after it was planned to be obsolete.

I have had multiple CRTs die on me, I'm on my third monitor for my Amiga 4000 now. I have also had multiple flat screens die on me too, so I see your point there, but it's simply not true to say that a 40 year old CRT is more likely to work now than a five year old LCD.

Regarding hassle, they are extremely large and heavy, and dangerous to work on. When I had my last arcade cabinet I used to adjust the pots using a screwdriver taped to a wooden stick because I was so terrified of getting electrocuted. While they may be safe to work in if you know what you're doing, they are certainly capable of killing somebody.

 

[RaveN]

We often hear about CRTs being "unreliable" or "hassle", which is simply rubbish.

There's no statistics to back this up at all. My space invaders cab is on the original LOPT and is now 43 years old. My medres CRT is 28 years old and running, one of my vector monitors is 42 years old and still going. And yet my expensive 27" PC LCD screen has had 2 new replacement internal psus within 8 years.

So why are CRTs unreliable? It's like when people think that cheap Chinese SMPS are "more reliable" than traditional linear supplies that have lasted 30 years and just need a simple transister changing, it's ridiculous, and fueled by people that think more modern cheap Chinese stuff is somehow more reliable (it isn't).

I assume people are saying they are unreliable now, not in relation to their entire lifespan. For example a 50 year old car would be deemed as high risk of breakdown, even though it's "still going" long after it was planned to be obsolete.

I have had multiple CRTs die on me, I'm on my third monitor for my Amiga 4000 now. I have also had multiple flat screens die on me too, so I see your point there, but it's simply not true to say that a 40 year old CRT is more likely to work now than a five year old LCD.

Regarding hassle, they are extremely large and heavy, and dangerous to work on. When I had my last arcade cabinet I used to adjust the pots using a screwdriver taped to a wooden stick because I was so terrified of getting electrocuted. While they may be safe to work in if you know what you're doing, they are certainly capable of killing somebody.

You haven't explained why CRTs are more unreliable though. They are heavier, sure. LCDs have just as high voltages in their inverters. So what happens when an LCD dies, are you happy to stick a screwdriver inside that?
My personal opinion is CRTs (not all) will last 20-30 years. At which point the elec caps are eol and need replacing. Replacing them is simple and then they will often go again for a long time. LCDs and SMPS have a MUCH shorter lifespan.

 

[RaveN]

p.s you shouldn't be "terrified" of being electrocuted, it's a very simple process to ensure that doesn't happen.

 

[edd_jedi]

Because of their age, you cant buy new ones any more, the youngest are getting on for 20 years old. As you say, they have multiple components that expire - capacitors, flybacks etc. You might have some that are still going, that doesn't mean that many, many others haven't died (including several myself as above.) If an LCD dies I buy another, because you can and they're cheap. If you could still buy brand new ones I'm sure more people would consider them, but you can't. Plus as per the OP, there are other practical reasons why one isn't suitable for this project.

And what's wrong with somebody that's not a qualified electrician being scared of electricity? Would you be happy diving with Great White Sharks without any training? Or Skiing down a black run on your first attempt?

edd_jedi2022-12-31 16:48:33

 

[RaveN]

These are devices designed for arcade operators to handle, if you're not prepared to learn about electrical components then you really shouldn't handle them at all. There's high voltages in the cabinet (not just the monitor). If you're scared of electricity then why would you buy something that isn't designed for the retail market, isn't CE rated and potentially isn't wired correctly? You're putting yourself in danger.

If you decide to be a part of this hobby, you have to build some sort of understanding of electrical circuits (you don't have to be a qualified electrician), understand schematics and the maintenance involved, respect the history.

 

[edd_jedi]

Wow, what a warm welcome to a new member, thanks for the condescending replies. If you had bothered to read my intro post you would have seen that I owned a cabinet over 20 years ago, that's the last time I handled an arcade CRT and the period I was referring to above. Since then I have gained a decent understanding of video game consoles, computers, electronics etc, so am quite comfortable with the build I am proposing in this thread. For the third time, there are other practical reasons I will not be using a CRT.

If you want to have an angry rant about CRTs and people you assume are less experienced than you, why not start your own thread rather than ruin mine?

 

[John Bennett]

Well I do think there's interesting discussion on getting the best experience with an LCD as, highlighted here, they're far from a plug and play alternative.

Personally I wish there was a much bigger range of 4:3 LCD options out there. It'd certainly stop people throwing tiny, ill-fitting widescreens into F355's and Mario Karts and anything 50" rear projection.

 

[edd_jedi]

Agreed, and from my previous experience CRTs are far from plug and play either, I owned three different JAMMA PCBs with my old cabinet 2 decades ago and each one required drastically different alignment, brightness, contrast etc.

 

[John Bennett]

Arcade monitors do give you potentiometers for adjusting the image size though - albeit often involving having to stick your hand into the Cavern of Death to be able to twiddle

I suppose that's where the configurability of the upscaler for the LCD comes in.

 

[John Bennett]

For the record, that was a joke about the 'Cavern of Death', I ain't having a new years eve argument over arcade stuff

 

[edd_jedi]

Yeah exactly, hence why I used to do it with a screwdriver taped to a wooden stick! I'm well aware that you can discharge a CRT, but you can't do that while it's switched on!

 

[RaveN]

Wow, what a warm welcome to a new member, thanks for the condescending replies. If you had bothered to read my intro post you would have seen that I owned a cabinet over 20 years ago, that's the last time I handled an arcade CRT and the period I was referring to above. Since then I have gained a decent understanding of video game consoles, computers, electronics etc, so am quite comfortable with the build I am proposing in this thread. For the third time, there are other practical reasons I will not be using a CRT.

If you want to have an angry rant about CRTs and people you assume are less experienced than you, why not start your own thread rather than ruin mine?

Welcome to the forum. I promise you it was not intended as a personal attack on your comments, all I simply wanted to do is counteract disinformation such as CRTs are unreliable. It's as simple as that. It wasn't an angry rant. Happy to have a proper discussion about it.

 

[Venom]

My original post contained "each to their own" and I can speak from experience.

I have had two CRT's die on me and the guy who had my neo geo was never that pleased with the red of the picture.

My dad owned and TV rental and repair company for over 50 years and repairing TV's "put food on table"

The main difference being it was worth repairing CRT's. LCD's he never really got into repairs himself.

Unfortunatey many of my dad's engineers he knew back in the day are either retired or passed away now.

So I think finding someone local to repair items can be expensive and hassle !

I also have access to a few classic cars, and even though they are lovely they also need quite a bit of maintanance.

Happy new year to all.