cops robbers (help please)

[Unit504]

i have had this bell fruit club cops and robbers for a while now,
it has run without any faults until now

how the problem occurred is:

pressed the start button reels span as normal pressed start again for my next go,

the reels just continually span and span and did not stop, so i switch the power off to get them to stop

(prob not the best thing to do)

when i re powered up the error 22 displayed and now it displays error 21

i know from the error details printed inside the fruitie that its a reel 1 and maybe 2 error,

but that is all i know

can anyone guide me in the right direction to what the problem could be and maybe how to rectify it..?

Thanks all

 

[paulcan69]

I have no idea how these work - at all!! But by reading that I guess there is a optic which shines across the reel and has a receiver the other side, much the same as an Arkanoid spinner or Pole Position steering wheel optic.

First I would clean, clean, clean, then make sure they are still pointing at each other (emitter and receiver) then I would meter across them to see if you can get a good voltage.

If not buy + change the optic/s for that reel.

That's as far as I could go.

 

[Unit504]

thanks for the info, these are all new to me too.

Have cleaned around the optics and reels and i have just checked the reels and found the reel at fault.... checked the optics (red led) and it was brighter then all the other red leds of the other reels so i took out the reels led and powered back up - oddly enough the fruite now works ok!!

So do i need to have the red led in the reel or just leave it out..?

what is the purpose of the led?

this is the led:

I have no idea how these work - at all!! But by reading that I guess there is a optic which shines across the reel and has a receiver the other side, much the same as an Arkanoid spinner or Pole Position steering wheel optic.

First I would clean, clean, clean, then make sure they are still pointing at each other (emitter and receiver) then I would meter across them to see if you can get a good voltage.

If not buy + change the optic/s for that reel.

That's as far as I could go.

 

[trm]

I would be surprised if the game is working properly if you've removed one half of the emitter/sensor pair! The way the game is able to tell what the reels are doing is as Paul mentioned above - there should be a slot on the reel inner which interrupts that beam, or there'll be lots of slots which interrupt the beam every time the reel steps.

The game PCB resets the reels to a known position on power-up - you've probably noticed that shortly after turning the power on all the reels spin then come to rest, then probably spin a bit more.

This is the PCB identifying that it can control the stepper motors for each reel (the free spinning part), then advancing them until the "position 1" indicator is found, normally via a bit of plastic inside the reel breaking the emitter/receiver beam (this is when the reels stop, probably all showing the same symbol), and then sometimes the reels spin backwards to check that works too.

If one part of the emitter/receiver pair has been removed then I'd expect one of the reels to carry on spinning longer as the game waits to see the beam-broken signal, indicating that the reel is at position one.

At the moment I'm wondering if the LED you removed is actually part of the reel sensor package. I would expect them to use infrared LEDs so they're less likely to be affected by ambient light.

Any chance of some pics of the innards, particularly where you removed this LED?

Although, if the game seems to be working then it's hard to argue with that (but I suspect this LED is unrelated to the fault based on it still working without it).

 

[andyman]

Red led is not the emitter for the pair Tim, its just a visual indicator in addition to the sensor package.

If you spin the reels manually the red led indicates a physical position of the reel and removing it will do no harm, the fact that it was stopping the reel sensor from working indicates a possible fault with the sensor anyway.

Andy.

WD40 is not a repair tool Lofty

andyman2011-04-02 23:15:20

 

[trm]

Cool - that makes sense now. As I mentioned I couldn't see why they'd use a visible spectrum emitter as that just made it more vulnerable to interference (or possibly some new attack where you shine a red laser pointer through the front glass and try to trick the reel position

And please accept my humblest apologies for misunderstanding your suggestion that WD40 was a repair tool I'll be sure to update that tagline just as soon as I can think of something suitably offensive

tim

ps I'm only changing it to keep you on your toes and see how long it takes you to spot. I'm really doing you a favour as at your age, you need to keep the brain working!

 

[andyman]

FFS you are the second person to mention my age today, I smell conspiricy

 

[Unit504]

right finally got round to getting some time to look at the reels issue...

so right now one reel has the little led removed and this lets the machine run, but the win line is not always recognised..!! put the led back in and you get a reel error.

ive clean the reels / sensors moved reels around..

i did also test the voltage of each led and they all read 5v except the suspect one which reads 3v..?

here is a few photos of the reels / leds and sensors....

last led is removed in this photo.

Unit5042011-04-10 21:32:47

 

[trm]

OK, just seen the pic with the LED. Looking at the wiring I think that the LED has power and GND and then at least one wire (probably both, I think the pink and brown) are daisy-chained off it. Depending on the internal config of that white plastic holder it's possible that the legs of the LED are used to make the daisy-chain, but that's a bit of a risky way to do it.

Sorry if this is telling you something you already know, but I marked up one of the shots to indicate the sensor parts.

The part marked in blue is the beam interruption sensor, the part marked in red almost certainly has a protruding piece of plastic which acts as the beam interrupt. So this config allows the controller to detect when the reel is in the zero position and then probably relies on a stepper motor to advance, as it's got no extra beam interrupter so it can't detect stepping any other way.

I'd be looking at the wiring to the beam interrupt sensor and seeing if that goes to the LED mount you removed the LED from. There must be some connection between the two (somewhere) if replacing the LED causes a reel fault but I can't understand why the red LED would matter.

Unfortunately all my fruities are in storage at a friends but I might be able to get over there this week and pop a lid to have a look. Any idea what technology this one runs on, so I can see if I've got something close?

 

[trm]

Ignore my question about the system type - I scrolled back up and saw the Scorpion shots

I couldn't see it, but is there a pair of LED 7-segment displays on the main PCB? It's talking about showing diagnostic codes but I'd be surprised if they appear on the dot matrix display that shows normal game progress as you need quite a bit of the main board working to address the multiplexors and shift registers that will be driving the dot matrix, leading me to think there's going to be a simpler display mounted on or near the PCB itself.

 

[Unit504]

yes you are right the sensor circled in blue is connected to the led via the brown and pink wire,
and the beam cutter is in the red circle

i was looking at all the wiring for a bit mainly to see if there was any loose connections, could the led just be faulty..? maybe i should get a spare from maplins.?

 

[trm]

I think it's starting to make sense now. When the reels are running normally does the red LED blink whenever the beam interrupt passes through the beam break sensor?

I'd swap out the LED for any standard-ish LED you've got lying around and see whether that improves the accuracy. You could just do a diode test on it but for a sole red LED I'd just swap it. I can only think that they're using the red LED as a current limiter for the actual emitter/receiver pair and the lack of the red LED's load is causing the beam break sensor to go weird. You did mention that it had a different intensity to the others so this could be possible.

If the red LED does act as an indicator for the beam break, then after it's been replaced watch the other reels and check the LED flashes whenever the beam is broken (can do this manually with a bit of card which might be easier) and then check the same with the dodgy reel. It could be that the beam break is duff and the red LED is a complete red herring

but it shouldn't be too tricky to get it sorted.

Was the red LED soldered in or was it a push-fit? It looks pushfit, so I'd be tempted to make a little mark on the LED already removed, then swap it over to a reel which is working fine and see if the fault travels. If so I reckon the scenario where the LED is being used as some kind of limiting device for the beam break sensor is on the money and we can go from there.

Pretty sure this should be up and running soon though dude

 

[Unit504]

ill have a look into the leds flashing when the beam is broke.
i did swap the "so called" bad led over to a different reel and it was fine, in think what you are say the led could be a red herring and its the sensor thats faulty ...? Will investigate more...

 

[mathj]

just swap the reels and see if the fault follows the reel

if the error stays on the same reel position its the board or loom at fault
if it follows the reel its the sensor at fault

iirc the led is on untill the sensor is blocked and then it goes off, or could be the other way around

math
mathj2011-04-10 23:10:01

 

[Unit504]

yes when swapping reels around the fault follows the reel in question..

just swap the reels and see if the fault follows the reel

if the error stays on the same reel position its the board or loom at fault
if it follows the reel its the sensor at fault

iirc the led is on untill the sensor is blocked and then it goes off, or could be the other way around

math

 

[Unit504]

have had a look again at the reels and made sure the led goes off when the beam of the sensor is broken, and each reel led does this fine. I didnt use the suspect led just swapped over one from the dice reel which has no faults.

So its now leading me to believe the led is a fault!! Will be in maplins getting some 5v leds tomorrow

 

[Unit504]

right ive got a whole load of new 5v leds so replaced them all and the problem of the reel error started to jump from reel 1 to 2 then to 6

but oddly if you leave the led in on reel 6 (dice reel) it will just keep spinning!

So currently i have removed the dice reel led, but have also noticed that when playing the game, when you get a win line of any kind it does not register that its a win.

Is there a reset i need to do on the game board or reels...?

plus on top os all that the coin mech has stop accepting coins they just drop straight through arggh!

coin mech:

Dice Reel:

 

[Unit504]

right a tiny update on this issue.
I had a guy from http://www.jvcleisure.co.uk/services.html come over to take a look, and basically they say the battery has gone plus the pcb board itself is dead.

So they will be sourcing a new board for me now.

Other question is has anyone had any dealings with the above said company..? (JVC Leisure)

From the out set them seem ok people to use.