Initial D Twin Restoration

guddler

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Here's a couple of pics of the convergence. If anyone knows about this then shout up please! Another night I'll also take a couple of pics of the screen bleeding too as hopefully someone will be able to suggest specific components to replace rather than going mad with lots of caps.

Here's a general pic showing that the centre is pretty good, bordering on perfect.

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As you can see, the edges and particularly the corners are buggered! I think it's a Sanwa of some description? Please correct me if that's not likely to be right.

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guddler2010-11-22 00:07:59
 

guddler

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I don't think it's used in ID3 - it certainly doesn't seem to do anything. According to the ID2 manual it's a "Credit" button. No idea how that would work!
 

G-man

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My original ID1 just had the blue and yellow there so dunno if that's an 'official' addition or someone has done that in the past. I have these buttons on my SR2 and Daytona USA 2 machines. Pretty sure once you add coins they flash and you press to 'activate' the credit.
 

g00n3r

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Credit dispense, if you have one mech you can post credits to either side, but I usually just fit two mechs (l+r).

Conversion is pretty easy to adjust on these, just undo the out locking ring and twiddle the rings -

http://www.arcaderepairtips.com/2010/08/25/adjusting-the-convergence-rings/

Make sure you have the rings marked up before you twiddle.

Ordy can probably suggest caps to change, they aren't the best monitor in the world (Sanwa 29e31s), but they do vary massively between older and newer batches, but I don't know why.
 

guddler

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Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge the convergence isn't going to be fixed by convergence rings in this case. If any of the rest of this is wrong I'll be happy to be corrected and pointed to the correct information as this is one instance where I'd love to be wrong! At the moment my point of reference for this (my father!) is away. When he's back I'll get him to pop over and talk to him about it, he shouldn't have forgotten this stuff yet
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Working back from the yoke, the first pair of rings is meant to be for purity and there are no colour issues so no point in adjusting them. The next two sets are for static convergence of the beams, 1st the red & blue, then the magenta (result of the previous two) and green. The key here though is "static convergence". That means the middle of the screen. And the convergence in the middle of the screen is spot on.

The "dynamic convergence" is what covers the outsides of the screen. And that is covered by moving the yoke itself. Moving the yoke up and down will affect the horizontal lines on the left and right side, moving it left and right will affect the vertical lines, most noticeably at the top and bottom. Furthermore, these two adjustments will also have an impact to a certain degree on any convergence that has been done in the middle, so after this adjustment, you may need to repeat the previous process, ad infinitum until you've got the best you can.

As discussed the other day on IRC, another aid for fine tuning adjustment in the corners are the little magnetic strips you can buy. But since none of us know where to buy them, we can for the moment rule that out!! And sadly fridge magnets cut into strips aren't a possible substitute - tried that
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So, realistically, if anything is going to help here, it's a vertical adjustment of the yoke. BUT... That yoke is glued solid and hasn't slipped so the tube is probably just crap.

I had a bit of a go at setting it up yesterday but I managed to establish that there's no point bothering yet. The tube is very weak. The focus isn't great, but it's acceptable, more to the point though is that you simply can't get enough brightness out of the tube with the screen control. Not by a long shot. So I'm working on the basis that the guns in the tube are (or have become) weak. If I can find out what adapter the tube takes then I can at least put it on my rejuvenator, get some readings and test that theory. At the moment though I've no idea what adapter it takes. I don't have a readable circuit diagram for the monitor so I can't make an adapter or even buy a universal one as I wouldn't know which pins are which on the neck.

It has to be said, at the moment, the future's not looking bright for this monitor (no pun intended) but I'll ponder for a little while. If I can get some reasonable results out of the tube then it's definitely worth pursuing the chassis. Otherwise, I need to decide whether to shell out for another monitor, or whether to cut my losses and scrap one half of the cab. I don't really want to do that but I'm also not ploughing bucket loads of $$$ into this
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I'm heavily reliant here on other collectors coming up with spares (for the seats, steering wheel, etc.). So far, the reply I've had is to go to Sega. I haven't done yet, but obviously they'll be pricey. Must get hold of Videotronics and Andy Geezer later in the week.
 

guddler

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Ace, please do let me know if you find out. I don't think I've got a 23 but I know where I can borrow one, or I can just butcher one of the others
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guddler

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Actually, I just got a reply from Franco on the Arcade Otaku forums about the manual, and while the schems are unreadable, in the block diagram they list 4 different compatible tubes, one of which is A68KSM696X (mine is 73SX707Y22). The A68K tube is listed in the setup chart and is indeed adapter number 23, heater voltage 6.3v. I've also sent him a PM on his FS monitor so thanks for the heads up on that.
 

g00n3r

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To cut a very long story short -

We as a large(ish) company complained about the number of crappy Sanwa images.

Sega agree to cover the cost of a Sanwa engineer to fly over to the UK to assess the image issues that we and other companies were suffering.

I lined up about 10 tubes/chassis that we had suffered image issues with, then tech guy from Sanwa spent about an hour in total and made them all look like new, but unfortunately he didn't speak English and I don't speak Chinese (even with Sega's translation) and he then left to visit other customers.

The theory is that they can be made to look fantastic, but I can't tell you exactly how they tweaked the chassis to match the tubes, or even why one batch of tubes and chassis gave brilliant vibrant pictures and colours and the next looked like dog sh*t.

The upshot is that the 29e31s tube and chassis can be made to look fantastic, but nobody appears to know exactly what that secret is.

Ps, why the fook Sega sent somebody from Sanwa to the UK to explain and repair the issues without a translator is a mystery.
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guddler

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That's incredible! On the one hand, positive, on the other so dumb that they didn't send someone over that could actually explain what they were doing
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Did you have ANY idea at all? Ie, was he playing with the yoke? the convergence rings?, just the chassis?, if so was he replacing components or just making adjustments? (etc. i guess!)

I've not given up hope on this one yet. If i can beg or borrow an adapter for the tube I can at least see what readings I get and know if the tube is good or bad even if I don't attempt to zap it - not always a good idea.

[EDIT] If I can borrow a second pair of hands then I may put the other monitor in this side for the moment and come back to this monitor later. Looks like the weather's turning cold so I may not be up there too much over the next few days anyway.
guddler2010-11-25 02:02:02
 

g00n3r

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It was quite amusing really, the tech guy doing hand gestures and making whooshing noises to explain what he was doing.
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In the end we got 10 new tubes and chassis paid for by Sega and we brought another 10 at cost. We changed all of the Outrun 2 monitors, but by then ID revenue was on the slide and I was starting to phase them out so they didn't get changed.

The tech guy had a smallish bag of components and a few essential tools and spent about 3 or 4 minutes on each monitor, but other than watch him solder a few bits and twiddle a few knobs I'm not a tech so have no idea what he was up to.
 

Ace`

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Guddler I can make you a CR-23 if you like, I've got a spare neck socket and the correct molex pins (thanks Equites) I'd just need to order the 12 pin housing.
 

guddler

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g00n3r said:
The tech guy had a smallish bag of components and a few essential tools and spent about 3 or 4 minutes on each monitor, but other than watch him solder a few bits and twiddle a few knobs I'm not a tech so have no idea what he was up to.

That's good info in itself. It shows that he clearly wasn't messing with tubes or yokes, he simply couldn't have achieved any results in that time if he was. I wonder though if he may have been modifying the chassis for a known defect. Replacing specific parts. That would be bad since without any relevant service bulletins we'll never know. And since they're no longer in business...

Ace` said:
Guddler I can make you a CR-23 if you like, I've got a spare neck socket and the correct molex pins (thanks Equites) I'd just need to order the 12 pin housing.

Ace: that would be absolutely superb if you could please. Drop me a PM with what you want for doing it and I'll get it sorted for you. I don't think I've got any of the housings but I will check for you later.
 

guddler

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Need to do an update on this soon - side one is now complete aside from the seat back.

I have another complete control panel on the way (minus FF motor) that will give me a second decent steering wheel and insert, plus some of the dash components may be better than the ones here. I also have the required seat clips on their way. They'll probably arrive tomorrow?

I've borrowed a CRT adapter and boosted the tube. The monitor now looks like new. And I'm not kidding either. Very little issues in convergence, just like you might expect a brand new 29" to be like near the corners. Picture is nice and bright and all the dials are set back more or less to the factory marked positions. Ace has kindly offered to make me up an adapter. I just need to order the plug housing so I'll have my own I can use on the other side when it comes to it (sorry dude, been manic at work this week).

The card reader is all installed. Works ok in terms of game saving but doesn't seem to print anything on the card. I assume it's meant to - is it?

I've tightened the steering wheel up nice and tight but still seem to have an issue with the force feedback. I really need someone to play this machine that knows what they're meant to be like as I'm clueless on that one! Maybe I'll make up a YouTube video or something, it's pretty obvious!

I've got a bit of a dilemma on the artwork though. Sega don't have a complete set of anything in stock which is a right pain in the arse.

I can get ID3 sides and ID3 base sides plus ID2 base back (stickers behind the seat - covers up a lot of scuff marks) and ID2 seat backs. A right old mix and match which will be just plain wrong. Very surprisingly they don't have ANY "Start/View/Credit" stickers which I'm really taken aback by because I could do with them. They also don't have any instruction stickers to go along the top of the monitor.

They have the stickers for the card readers but at over £50 per side, sod that. They're actually the most expensive stickers on the whole machine!

So, I really don't know what to do with the artwork. All the small visible stickers are unavailable.

More another day...
 

whitecomet

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guddler said:
The card reader is all installed. Works ok in terms of game saving but doesn't seem to print anything on the card. I assume it's meant to - is it?

I've got a bit of a dilemma on the artwork though. Sega don't have a complete set of anything in stock which is a right pain in the arse.

I can get ID3 sides and ID3 base sides plus ID2 base back (stickers behind the seat - covers up a lot of scuff marks) and ID2 seat backs. A right old mix and match which will be just plain wrong. Very surprisingly they don't have ANY "Start/View/Credit" stickers which I'm really taken aback by because I could do with them. They also don't have any instruction stickers to go along the top of the monitor.

Yeah the card reader prints your name, car etc... also your current progress on the game.

As for stickers.. this is a problem I know all to well... I have managed to get a complete set of iD1 stickers, as your said Sega no longer have full sets of either iD2/iD3 kits. Replica kits do seem the only way forward with iD3 as nobody has iD2 stickers which is what Im after for my second cabinet :(

There is a place in the UK that does replica iD artwork (also OutRun2 replica) I can pass the details on to you if you want them. However they list iD3 artwork on there site but show images of iD1 :p
 

guddler

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Yes please. Fake artwork is better than no artwork - as long as the price reflects the fact it's fake
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As for the card reader, I'll have to swap the internals over with the other one initially then before taking that one much further. I'm now pretty convinced I only have the room for one of the card readers to be bolted on anyway.
 

guddler

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Am in fairly desperate need of some office space back in the games room now so I had another push at getting this done yesterday. It's not there yet but probably two more evenings and we'll be all back together and just down to needing tweaks.

So, the other half...

Back on phone camera for the moment as I forgot and left the camera in the house.

First up I actually remembered a "before" shot this time round so a quick snap which shows the general condition of things. No damage, but eeewwww, I'm really not surprised we ended up covered in black muck when we dismantled the machine for transport.

id020.png


Speed was the essence of things here so no more pics of the base. Essentially the same was done as last time though. A full dismantle, strip down and thorough clean, inside and out. This time round I left the fan alone though. Hopefully it'll work when powered back up this time.

With it all back together and cleaned up as far as the upper frame I stood there and puzzled for a while but couldn't for the life of me remember where stuff went. I guess thats what you get for taking it all apart in a rush and then sitting on my laurels for a few weeks in between the left and right sides. Where exactly does this lot go??!!

id021.png


After thinking about it for a bit I came up with the idea of fitting the control panel which basically solved the problem as I could then work out a good wiring route even if it wasn't exactly how it had come apart - but I think it is.

Snap of it re-assembled as far as it is right now:

id022.png


I can actually see in that pic a wire clip that I've not glued back down. Must fix that
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Today, I took the plunge and rang Sega to get some spares on order:

  • New artwork for both sides of both bases
  • 2 sets of new side art (ID3)
  • New artwork for the bit that sits on the panel behind both the seats
  • 2 new 5K pots, just in case
  • 2 new "timing belts" - the belts that do the force feedback
  • 2 new RHS stainless "finger trap" covers for the pedals as the old ones were mashed out of shape
I also have another control panel still to come which will give me a decent steering wheel and some other bits. Must chase that up as it's gone quiet on that one even though it's paid for.

After all this, I had the bright idea of taking the cover off the steering mech to see how it all works, and even power it all up to see if I got any clues as to why the other side is so clunky and sounding like it wants to self destruct (which, incidentally, I realised I couldn't do once I discovered how it works!).

The good news is that I reckon I've sussed that out - or at least a good chance. Attached to the "lid" of the steering box is a big rubber stopper. As well as that, there's another stopper that is free to spin around attached to the main spindle - kind of difficult to describe but it makes sense now as it's how the wheel can have more than 360 degrees of travel!

When I was looking, I noticed that both of the rubber stoppers are spilt and generally a bit buggered (technical term!). I figure stick a new drive belt on, replace those rubbers and make sure everything's done up well and we should be good to go. Just one problem, I just ordered from Sega and I'm damned if I'm paying £11(+VAT) delivery for a tiny order that will fit in a jiffy bag. Considering this is going to get light private use though I think I can manage a repair with the existing rubber stops and some duct tape or something, then get the replacement parts some time in the new year if there's something else I need.

Unless anyone else is ordering from Sega and would be prepared to post on for me? Please let me know if you are.

On top of that, I reckon I've worked out a way to convert this to a 270 degree mechanism with just a bit of welding, or maybe if my mate is feeling adventurous, a new bracket making up. We'll see on that one. No need for the moment until I want to play other games.

More soon I guess. I'm desperately trying to have it all back up and running in time to have some mates round before or over xmas with their kids so maybe more this week if I can wake up enough.
 

guddler

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And tonight, I couldn't resist the urge to connect up a computer monitor (temporarily of course) and connect the two machines together so we could have networked play.

Superb!!
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Oh, and I looked into the steering / force feedback but more on that another time.
 

guddler

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Large box turned up from the nice chap at Sega today
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Furthermore he's going to sort me out the extra bits I need for the steering. Cool.
 
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