[Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

[LukeWells]

[ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

I had a Konami HO that was randomly resetting durning game play, so I hooked
up my logging multimeters to the various parts of the POR and watchdog
circuit to find where the resets were coming from.

I traced and fixed the resetting (bad caps in the POR) and left the game on
for a soak test to make sure it was really fixed. After an hour I came back
to the board and all I had was a screen of N's .... damn!

First I replaced every socketed chip (Konami customs, and roms) with known
good workers from another board.

Second I socketed and replaced the main (2128/6116) program ram)

Third I replaced all the 244's and 245's in the cpu section of the board

Forth I desoldered and socketed the clock custom daughterboard and replaced
all the chips underneath this then replaced it.

Lastly I replaced a few other random/suspect chips and still nothing.

All I get is a screen of white N's

Comparing with a working board it looks like I am not getting correct INT
signal, I traced back and replaced most of the chips in the circuit that
generates int and still nothing

I've replaced more then 50% of the board now and still it doesn't work.

Tracing out the signals with a logic probe, scope gives no indication of the
fault as I can't find anything out of the ordinary.

Please help, I am really stuck with this one

Luke

 

[P-Man]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

At about point 2, I would have thrown the board in a box and bought
another worker off ebay for £25

Andy Welburn
www.andys-arcade.com

>

 

[pobtastic]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

Those white N's are part of the start up routine which means it isn't
getting past booting. One of the things it tests first is the battery and
high scores ) Try replacing the battery and flushing the high score table
by dip switch - it may well be too corrupt for the game logic to handle
(does happen). The reason you're not getting a correct INT signal is that
the game isn't running and therefore no interrupts are being created. I
assume you've checked the ROMs and their sockets as well?... ;o)

Pobster

 

[LukeWells]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

Hi Pob,

The highscores probably got lost when I replaced the ram , but aside from
that the dips are set to clear password as I do find they tend to be full of
garbage when powering up a H/O for the first time.

what does 0 mean in the bootup sequence? I was prodding pins on the clock
card and slowed the cpu clock and saw it does a screen full of 0's before
the screen full of N's. It seems to do this every time.

To be able to draw the screen full of N's (and O) it must be mostly working
as if anythings missing from the board at all, then all you get is a blue
screen of garbaged sprites

ROM's are from a known working board (and the roms from this board when
placed in the known working board also work fine) and the sockets are fine
as well.

Andy, thanks for your usual helpful suggestions but this board has got
past the point of putting it in a box, seen as I've spent so much in time
and parts on this f00ker I need to finish fixing it, otherwise it will have
all been a waste

Luke

 

[Zektor]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

I had a simialr problem with HO although it had the guys running on the
grass not the track and at about 50 times faster than nomal, I gave up on it
in the end! I probably could dig it out if you need some of the special
chips

 

[pobtastic]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

The N's are all good!!! ) If you fire it up in MAME you'll get that same
screen of N's for about half a second before the game comes up, so you *are*
nearly there ) It sounds like it's either failing the self test or the
watchdog is supposed to bark before the game comes up and it doesn't and so
just stalls the game? I assume it's not just constantly resetting then?
It's actually just stalled? Unfortunately, when I had this exact same
symptom the solution was very easy! ) Turned out to be a bad socket on a
ROM... So that's no help to you at all - sorry!

Hmmm... Dunno about the screen of O's (0's?)... I bet they just come up so
quickly before the N's that I've never noticed them ) Who knows!

Pobster

 

[LukeWells]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

> The N's are all good!!! ) If you fire it up in MAME you'll get that
same
> screen of N's for about half a second before the game comes up, so you
*are*
> nearly there ) It sounds like it's either failing the self test or the
> watchdog is supposed to bark before the game comes up and it doesn't and
so
> just stalls the game?

The watchdog is barking, and barking about every second, so I cut the wdog
pin.

With the wdog pin cut, the cpu continues to run (activity on all I/O lines)
for about 30 seconds and then halts.

>I assume it's not just constantly resetting then?

yeah it would if I put the wdog pin back

> It's actually just stalled? Unfortunately, when I had this exact same
> symptom the solution was very easy! ) Turned out to be a bad socket on
a
> ROM... So that's no help to you at all - sorry!
>
> Hmmm... Dunno about the screen of O's (0's?)... I bet they just come up
so
> quickly before the N's that I've never noticed them ) Who knows!
>
> Pobster
>
>

 

[pobtastic]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

Hmmm... Dunno! ) Sorry!

...If the processor is in an actual HALT state (?) then maybe it's not
reading the code off the ROMs correctly (stabbing in the dark here!) I
still reckon it's a ROM reading problem. Check the buffers perhaps if
you're sure the sockets/ traces are okay?

Pobster
PS. I thought you had a fluke?

 

[pobtastic]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

Correction! ) I didn't mean 'not reading the code correctly' I meant
maybe it's getting to a certain address and the code isn't there for
whatever reason. Bah, you know what I meant ;o)

Pobster

 

[LukeWells]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

> ...If the processor is in an actual HALT state (?)

god knows, not sure if the konami 1 has a halt pin?

runs code for about 30secs and then the address lines freeze and the data
lines float.

>then maybe it's not
> reading the code off the ROMs correctly (stabbing in the dark here!)

Now normally thats what I would have thought, but, in cases where rom data
is bad, the cpu will usually fail to run at about the time the watchdog
should be kicking in? but this one keeps on running for a while before it
gives up?

>I
> still reckon it's a ROM reading problem.

bah, Rom's are known good (tried 2 sets of good roms really) and the sockets
are all in good condition. I know they make good contact as when I was
having the original random resetting fault, I tapped, pushed/pulled on all
the roms and not once could I

>Check the buffers perhaps if

I socketed and replaced the buffers already

> you're sure the sockets/ traces are okay?
>
> Pobster
> PS. I thought you had a fluke?

I do, but there is no konami 1 pod for it .... could be done by making a
daughterboard though

Luke

 

[Macro]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

I think I have a bootleg with a normal 6809 on a daughterboard stuck in
the custom cpu socket - I assume it must match the main pins, even if it
probably won't run the protected code. (so run UUT won't work!)

I can have a look for you if you like ...

 

[LukeWells]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

Hi Mike, would be interesting if you would have a look at that.

I don't know much about the Konami 1 but it has different interrupts and the
like does it not? It has more pins then a standard 6809 but then most of the
konami1 control pins seem to be un-used :/

Luke

 

[andrewhannay]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

When the hell do you get time to do all of this?
Sorry not any help.
Andrew

 

[LukeWells]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

I replaced the 4x 2114 and 2x 2148 and no change.

There are now only a few original IC's left

Grrrrr

 

[Alpha1]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

broken tracks to the roms?

/o

 

[LukeWells]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

Naa, I've checked all lines to all roms.

Just as a sidenote, everyone seems to think the screen of N's mean bad roms,
this is not true. The screen of N's appear if the cpu is running and almost
*ANYTHING* on the board is at fault. I tested this on a known good board. If
any of the rams/buffers/drivers/decoders is bad then you get the screen of
N's

Luke

 

[pobtastic]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

You no listen!!!! You get the screen full of N's on any perfectly good
board. They're part of the initial testing, so getting them means the game
is reading at the very least some of the code. It also tests the sound
circuitry, did you replace the Z80? Sounds like you probably already
have... (

Pobster

 

[LukeWells]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

Yeah I know you get a screen of N's on a good board. When I was saying 'you
get a screen of N's' I should have said 'when you get stuck on the screen of
N's'

I've not replaced anything on the topboard (sound) as it works fine

Luke

 

[P-Man]

RE: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

I say you should borrow a small wooden boat, row out the middle of lake
Coniston at 3am, tie a large rock on a string to the pcb and slip it
into the water under the cover of an early morning mist and row back to
the shore as if nothing ever happened.

Andy Welburn
www.andys-arcade.com

>

 

[cliff_poole]

Re: [ukvac] [Tech] Nightmare Hyper Olympic

I would start double checking my soldering at this point. The heat can
easily damage through plating of holes or cause shorts on tracks. Maybe solder
has bridged underneath a socket (Happened to me before). Are any data lines
shorted together ?.

Cliff.

Quoting Luke Wells <ukvac@jigsawtechnologysolutions.com>:

>
> Naa, I've checked all lines to all roms.
>
> Just as a sidenote, everyone seems to think the screen of N's mean bad roms,
> this is not true. The screen of N's appear if the cpu is running and almost
> *ANYTHING* on the board is at fault. I tested this on a known good board. If
> any of the rams/buffers/drivers/decoders is bad then you get the screen of
> N's
>
> Luke