Disclosing repairs when selling PCB's

[Vamino]

A quick question to the forum.

Is it on the seller to disclose any repairs or is it on the buyer to ask for pictures?
Do you think it should be time for detailed pictures to be a requisite when selling an item on this forum?

I mean, there's a lot of sellers who put up for sale ads without any pictures at all, good luck selling on eBay or facebook marketplace without any pictures.

I recently bought a PCB off a seller on the forum and had an unpleasant surprise.
The PCB has issues not noticable when simply testing for image + sound and I'm not sure if it's related to the repair.

I usually ask for pictures, but the seller in question was slow in replying to PM's and has been on eBay for many years, so I just took it for granted that the PCB would be good enough. But this repair I'm not really happy with tbh.

Any thoughts?

 

[ChrisBEANS]

I think if you know about repairs, you should have an obligation to reference them in a sale.
Problem is… prove the seller knows!

I have a bunch of PCBs, and to the very best of my knowledge, none are repaired or have been ROM swapped (except for Batrider, but I have the original A Ver. ROM too).

That doesn’t mean that they’re definitely all in completely original condition, just that I think they are.

If I were to sell, I’d happily provide detailed pics, and close ups of any areas requested, and I’d consider it to be on the buyer to satisfy themself before agreeing to the sale.

One thing I really do recommend, is doing it openly in the sale/wanted thread. There are a ton of highly knowledgable people here who will spot a repair or ROM swap and can say so.
I’ve never understood ‘PM for pics’. What’s so secret that it should be done privately?!
Fishy!!

 

[favouredson]

I don't see how you can fail to mention something as glaringly obvious as that.
Unless you are completely dishonest then there is no reason not to mention things like this.

I have had numerous PCBs where people have not bothered to clean up after their repairs and I love spending ages cleaning up other people's mess.

 

[Vamino]

Gonna be honest, although I am steaming I'm still giving the seller the benefit of the doubt here.
I PM'd them late on Thursday night, hopefully they reply and there is a solution.

For context, I bought the PCB a couple of weeks ago.
I had it sent to a relatives as they are in to sign for parcels, and it can sit there for quite a few days. When I do collect parcels, i'II just do a quick test to see if it has sound/image before sitting down and playing something properly. Gone are the days of me being excited receiving something and needing to play it right away.

I also bought a Don Doko Don F2 Rom a while back and it took me ages to find a motherboard at a decent price, when I got around to testing that it had glitches and it was far too long to get back to the seller and let them know the game was faulty. It could still be my F2 motherboard, but it worked with Space Invaders so I dunno if it's my motherboard or not.

If the issue I'm having is related to those 2 chips, I think touching them could open a can of worms.

 

[NivagSwerdna]

Does it work? Apart from the trace to the right of the U4 designator it looks like an OK (not good... a bit blobby) job to me... although probably deserves a bit of a clean.
If it was sold as working and it doesn't work... then that is a problem.
I would clean it up and touch up the trace. You can check continuity before and after.

 

[Vamino]

Does it work? Apart from the trace to the right of the U4 designator it looks like an OK (not good... a bit blobby) job to me... although probably deserves a bit of a clean.
If it was sold as working and it doesn't work... then that is a problem.
I would clean it up and touch up the trace. You can check continuity before and after.

You can see the issue when the boss first appears on the stage, and during it's 3rd form

 

[thegreathopper]

Repaired is one thing, faulty is another thing completely.

Send back for a refund.

 

[cliff_poole]

If I'd bought a PCB as working and it did work, I wouldn't give the repairs a second thought, you've got to expect that with the age.

Any messy repairs, I'd normally just tidy them up myself without thinking any more of it.

If, as in your case it doesn't work, I'd contact the seller to figure something out.

Repairs are all just part of the history. I guess it is up to the seller what they declare and up to the buyer if they want to buy based on the information given.

 

[pubjoe]

I've before only noticed repairs (much more obvious than that) for the first time when taking photographs to sell years later. Sometimes only when someone else has pointed one out to me! Sometimes they're suggested to be factory modifications. There are a lot of ifs and buts.

Definitely give benefit of the doubt here.

But also do inform the seller that there's a fault, obviously.

 

[TheDaddy]

My personal view is that these boards are an average of 40 years old so surely you would expect repairs. If the board has been poorly repaired then thats a different thing , IE - Wires traces everywhere, Poor soldering , Broken corners ect then this (IMO) should be stated. I always ask for pictures now as I have been stung a few times , Once i get a board it has to be pretty bad and ' Not as described ' for me to return. I think to date i have only ever send one PCB back.

If the repairs are visible then I personally say , BUT I certainly dont give a full commentary on what has been repaired. I see no point in going into detail with " Board had 3 470uf capacitors replaced , Reworked a chip , Cleansed the board bla bla bla. But again if they ask I will say.

Its a really tough question in all fairness and everyone will have there own answers. I look it like I do with a car , When i purchased my car there was 2 cars that were totally the same in spec, Colour and mileage. Pictures of both cars and no information about any issues, but when I went to look at the first one it was scratched to death with deep scratches , Wheels were scuffed and interior had not been looked after with sticky stuff all over one of the carpets. No pictures of any damage or info in the write up. The second car was great and I purchased.

Dave.

 

[DanP]

Bear in mind most people’s “testing” will be to plug it in and see if it boots. Play testing through to the boss level (and it’s 3rd form) is probably expecting too much unless they were avid players of the game. Just my opinion though.

 

[LHantz]

I have some PCBs that I have only noticed tiny/slight repairs after owning 25 years or so. Big, clear Photo's are the key, especially selling at a premium price. I always see socketed chips as a bonus, I lent my Bubble Bobble PCB to Phil 'Irongiant' so he could de-solder the custom to repair another, and replace it with a socket which was totally fine with me.

 

[pubjoe]

Yeah, it's become more of a thing now there's more of a price.

 

[Vamino]

If I'd bought a PCB as working and it did work, I wouldn't give the repairs a second thought, you've got to expect that with the age.

Any messy repairs, I'd normally just tidy them up myself without thinking any more of it.

If, as in your case it doesn't work, I'd contact the seller to figure something out.

Repairs are all just part of the history. I guess it is up to the seller what they declare and up to the buyer if they want to buy based on the information given.

I'm that way inclined too, if a game works then I usually tend to overlook small repairs and the like, especially on games released in the 80's. I tend to stay away from buying too many games released in the 90's though, once any custom chips go they are basically bricked.

If I had no issues with the game then I'd probably have not have noticed the repair straight away and moved on to just enjoy playing the game, but it does have issues so I did the normal stuff such as scouring the board for something obviously wrong and found that repair.

I play my games, not submit them for grading and then put them in sealed cases hidden in a cupboard.
The seller does come across as a genuine guy and I'm not posting this to out him so to speak, but being honest I am cheesed off.

 

[Phils Arcade]

You can see the issue when the boss first appears on the stage, and during it's 3rd form

If that's the only glitch you're seeing, then the RAM is probably okay. Might be an address decoder not pointing to the right area on the graphics chip, or if there is a bridged solder joint on the previous repair. If you find out which graphic chip carries that boss level you might be able to trace it back to what is faulty and replace.

 

[sukhbir]

It’s like buying a old car and yes there will be repairs done to it.

 

[thegreathopper]

It’s like buying an old car and yes there will be repairs done to it.

I am not sure it’s quite the same, I have only bought games from 90’s on and for example a Neo Geo cart which I have bought 100’s the seller would say it’s been repaired, the same with Capcom and Cave pcb’s.

I can understand pre 90’s games, space invaders and the like being repaired but not later Jamma stuff.

Nothing wrong with repairs, it’s just in my experience the seller would mention it and it would affect the value.

 

[pubjoe]

for example a Neo Geo cart which I have bought 100’s the seller would say it’s been repaired, the same with Capcom and Cave pcb’s.

I dunno Hopper. I've bought and sold NG and CPS2 carts without ever looking inside, if working I'm blissfully unaware of anything that's happened inside the case. It's not the norm for a seller to crack open for photos. It's something I do more now. Depends on the value.

I'm sure I remember someone saying most Puzzle Bobble carts that escaped disposal are boots. They're low value and no one ever checks.

 

[TheDaddy]

Nothing wrong with repairs, it’s just in my experience the seller would mention it and it would affect the value.

I dont personally think (Good!) repairs should effect the price at all as long as fully functional. I mean without repairs they are useless aint they ??

Dave.

 

[thegreathopper]

I dunno Hopper. I've bought and sold NG and CPS2 carts without ever looking inside, if working I'm blissfully unaware of anything that's happened inside the case. It's not the norm for a seller to crack open for photos. It's something I do more now. Depends on the value.

I'm sure I remember someone saying most Puzzle Bobble carts are boots. They're low value and no one ever checks.

I have always checked every game I have bought, maybe it’s because as a job I am an electrical engineer, who also dabbles in electronics.

But you could be right it could just be me, I have had half a dozen puzzle bobble carts, checked every one though.

CPS2 for example 1st thing I do is take apart check the board then replace the battery, if it’s a motherboard take apart, fit a quiet fan and give a good clean.

I thought we all did this..,,😂😂😂