Nintendo & FPGA?
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pooman2084
Be Attitude For Gains!
Sounds like you need an Analogue Pocket or MiSTer!
And I have one for sale on this very forum 😁
John Bennett
Senior Member
I'd say it would certainly never happen as:
Software emulation, done properly, looks, sounds and plays identical to FPGA emulation. You can also do the latter worse, FPGAs have code in them too, it's not a 1:1 cloning method, it's just a programmable bit of hardware. If it puts the video out 1:1 at the 60Hz interrupt, reads the inputs with no lag and sounds the same, it doesn't matter if the CPU behind it is ripping through the dumped ROM code at 4GHz or 8MHz.
Even if Nintendo put the exact HDL into an FPGA, the vast majority of Joe public wouldn't care, no matter how many tech YouTubers got a hard-on. They'll be running HDMI into a big OLED anyway, you're not going to put a 15kHz SCART interface (or RF) onto a Switch, wire-up microswitched controllers and plug it into an old CRT to keep it properly authentic.
If you wanted the Gamecube and Wii, it would be the mother of all FPGAs and cost more than an entire Switch.
They'd use a custom ASIC anyway, cheaper and it doesn't need to be reprogrammable. But console manufacturers stopped doing things like that years ago for backwards compatibility.
I personally prefer good remakes/ports anyway - M2 have done some superb jobs over the years with their arcade stuff, where it's better than the original
.
Software emulation, done properly, looks, sounds and plays identical to FPGA emulation. You can also do the latter worse, FPGAs have code in them too, it's not a 1:1 cloning method, it's just a programmable bit of hardware. If it puts the video out 1:1 at the 60Hz interrupt, reads the inputs with no lag and sounds the same, it doesn't matter if the CPU behind it is ripping through the dumped ROM code at 4GHz or 8MHz.
Even if Nintendo put the exact HDL into an FPGA, the vast majority of Joe public wouldn't care, no matter how many tech YouTubers got a hard-on. They'll be running HDMI into a big OLED anyway, you're not going to put a 15kHz SCART interface (or RF) onto a Switch, wire-up microswitched controllers and plug it into an old CRT to keep it properly authentic.
If you wanted the Gamecube and Wii, it would be the mother of all FPGAs and cost more than an entire Switch.
They'd use a custom ASIC anyway, cheaper and it doesn't need to be reprogrammable. But console manufacturers stopped doing things like that years ago for backwards compatibility.
I personally prefer good remakes/ports anyway - M2 have done some superb jobs over the years with their arcade stuff, where it's better than the original
.
pooman2084
Be Attitude For Gains!
I dunno man, MiSTer feels way closer to a PCB than my old GroovyMAME setup.
I seem to be really sensitive to input lag but seem to post much better scores on MisTer in my JAMMA cab than when I had a PC hooked up.
It would be interesting to do a blind comparison one day.
YMMV of course.
I seem to be really sensitive to input lag but seem to post much better scores on MisTer in my JAMMA cab than when I had a PC hooked up.
It would be interesting to do a blind comparison one day.
YMMV of course.
pooman2084
Be Attitude For Gains!
MiSTercade offered a much better experience than MiSTer through a IPac or the Irkenlabs adapter, so no doubt the interface makes a big difference too.
John Bennett
Senior Member
Yeah, I'd say that's more Windows and the interfacing than the actual emulation.
If you're doing a software emulation port of a single game, on a games console, then it's going to be much easier to ensure you've got it 1:1 in terms of lag. You'd hope they'd playtest such things as they're charging for it.
I get the feeling MiSTer often offers a better version of a game as there's a lot of development focus (and Patreon) on making a conversion spot-on, whereas folk haven't had the time to fix some things in MAME (like SF2 Hyper Fighting playing too quick)
If you're doing a software emulation port of a single game, on a games console, then it's going to be much easier to ensure you've got it 1:1 in terms of lag. You'd hope they'd playtest such things as they're charging for it.
I get the feeling MiSTer often offers a better version of a game as there's a lot of development focus (and Patreon) on making a conversion spot-on, whereas folk haven't had the time to fix some things in MAME (like SF2 Hyper Fighting playing too quick)
John Bennett
Senior Member
Heh, just had a play and if you change the CPU speed to 8MHz from 12MHz and rebuild MAME, then the speed looks right in SF2HF. A dirty hack obviously, but the sort of thing you can easily do if you don't mind tweaking software emulation without fully understanding why
.I've read this in a lot a places but when you actually measure it on a slow motion camera and LED light tied to a button press it's the same. Were you setting the FrameDelay option on your groovymame setup to optimse the input lag?
Some MAME drivers (Jackal) are 1 frame faster than PCB/Mister. Most of the ones I tested though were the same across PCB/ mister/groovymame (with framedelay set to 6).
There were also games I had PCBs for but no mister core. These were the same when measuring against groovymame (like motal kombat 3, streetfight 3).