Really? that would make things a whole load easier, I was thinking the video amp only blocked 31khz signals a bit like the Jpac
Sega Model 3, SR2 plug n play PC project
- Thread starter Kev A
- Start date
Brilliant, that makes things much easier, so just program the videoamp for 384p and set the dips to filter other frequencies?
Games are in the garage so I don't like turning them on over winter when its cold, should be able to get back on track soon now the weathers getting a bit warmer, be great to get it done and playing some D2
After a busy weekend we finally have SR2, D2 and Scud Race playing on a PC with full FFB and the results are fantastic.
I had real problems getting the video card to output the correct resolution.
The video amp companion app has a section where you can set an 'EDID' which pretends to be a monitor and communicates with the graphics card recommending the resolution, the GPU then selects the resolution you have set in my case 512x384
Spent many hours on this, swapping different cards, a variety of graphics drivers and just couldn't get this to work, ended up resorting to CTREmuDriver and then the dodgy keyboard/touchpad registered a click by mistake when configuring the driver and bricked the system
Argggggggg
Turns out the source of all this frustration was the 25cm VGA cable I was using, which despite having all pins just would not pass the EDID data to the GPU, I imagine while it has all the pins in the connector only the bare minimum are actually connected.
Writing up a little step by step log of everything I did while I can still remember but for now....
I had real problems getting the video card to output the correct resolution.
The video amp companion app has a section where you can set an 'EDID' which pretends to be a monitor and communicates with the graphics card recommending the resolution, the GPU then selects the resolution you have set in my case 512x384
Spent many hours on this, swapping different cards, a variety of graphics drivers and just couldn't get this to work, ended up resorting to CTREmuDriver and then the dodgy keyboard/touchpad registered a click by mistake when configuring the driver and bricked the system
Argggggggg
Turns out the source of all this frustration was the 25cm VGA cable I was using, which despite having all pins just would not pass the EDID data to the GPU, I imagine while it has all the pins in the connector only the bare minimum are actually connected.
Writing up a little step by step log of everything I did while I can still remember but for now....
Added additional steps to the top of the thread, a couple of things I would like to point out, if it hadn't been for the faulty VGA cable this setup would have been quite straightforward, It really wasted a good day, also the Video Amp is a gamechanger over just using CRT Emu Driver, the major benefit with the videoamp is the ability to swap between CRT and LCD for maintenance, Power off, plug in an LCD and you get normal resolutions, reboot with the CRT connected and your back to EGA. adding extra games and stuff, will be a breeze
Not to mention the possibility of using mini PCs/laptops etc for jamma setups
Hopefully the more of us that do these the more streamlined we can make the process. I can confirm the R7 250 works with the EDID set at 512x384 I didn't need to play with super resolutions or anything.
Although I'm just using the 3 games with no frontend, you could really go to town with a ton of games, slick frontend etc.
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Excellent work with all this !! 
If you use ORIGINAL FFB, this window has no effect. Only game's service menu has.
Only running the Companion App (to choose a resolution/frequency) and selecting filters (to block other frequencies) are necessary
So, original FFB or emulated FFB.
At present, and to my knowledge (I will be corrected if I say nonsense), only Mame, Supermodel (M3) and some of the Model 2 Emulator games have the possibility of outputting the original FFB bytes. On the other hand, all emulators (including those mentioned above) can output the emulated FFB, either natively or via plugins.
On a "Model 3" Cab (or more precisely "which has an M3 driveboard", because that includes F355, but excludes LeMans 24), to take full advantage of the emulated FFB, you need the Sega Rally 2 EPROM on the driveboard, because it is the only EPROM that supports all emulated effects.
So for a Model3 cabinet: emulated FFB on ALL games, including M3 => Sega Rally 2 EPROM
As for the original FFB (available when you activate the RAW/M2PAC mode in the BackForceFeeder software (BFF for short) from njz3), since the PC behaves exactly like an original stack from an FFB point of view , behind it, the entire FFB system must correspond to it, including at the Driveboard EPROM level.
So for a Model3 cabinet:
Original FFB on Dirt Devils, Emergency Call Ambulance, Scud Race => Scud Race EPROM (because these 3 games use the same EPR-19388a EPROM originally)
Original FFB on Sega Rally 2, Nascar Arcade => Sega Rally 2 EPROM (because these 2 games use the same EPR-20512 EPROM originally)
Original FFB on Daytona USA 2 => Daytona USA 2 EPROM (only game to use the EPR-20985 EPROM originally)
Original FFB on F355 Challenge, F355 Challenge 2 => F355 EPROM (because these 2 games use the same EPR-21867 EPROM originally, but be careful with the DIPSwitches of the Driveboard)
See BigPanik's table to see all matches.
In your situation, as you have Sega Rally 2 EPROM on your driveboard (as you own a Sega Rally 2 cabinet), you can play all games with emulated FFB and Sega Rally 2 & Nascar Arcade with original FFB. For these 2 games, in the "Tune FFB" window you show, you can also check "Use compatible M2PAC raw mode for this game" to switch to Original FFB for these games while the general setting of BFF is set to Emulated FFB ("Comp_M3_SR2" as Target Hardware), which is very convinient.
Last, if you want to try original FFB on other M3 games, you have no choice but to burn and swap EPROMs on the Driveboard, or to use a MultiFFB board with or without a remote
An other similar solution is to put all the batch files you want in the emulator folder (no need to specify the path in that case) and put a shortcut to one of them in the startup folder ("copy" the batch file, then "paste shortcut" in the startup folder)
This enables EMULATED FFB. There are 2 options in BackForceFeeder: EMULATED FFB and ORIGINAL FFB. I'll give some precisions just below.
This "Tune FFB" windows allows to tune EMULATED FFB. And you can do that only there, the game's service menu FFB settings have no effect.
If you use ORIGINAL FFB, this window has no effect. Only game's service menu has.
Indeed, Calamity drivers, CRTEmuDriver, vmmaker are not needed when using VideoAmp.
Only running the Companion App (to choose a resolution/frequency) and selecting filters (to block other frequencies) are necessary
So, original FFB or emulated FFB.
At present, and to my knowledge (I will be corrected if I say nonsense), only Mame, Supermodel (M3) and some of the Model 2 Emulator games have the possibility of outputting the original FFB bytes. On the other hand, all emulators (including those mentioned above) can output the emulated FFB, either natively or via plugins.
On a "Model 3" Cab (or more precisely "which has an M3 driveboard", because that includes F355, but excludes LeMans 24), to take full advantage of the emulated FFB, you need the Sega Rally 2 EPROM on the driveboard, because it is the only EPROM that supports all emulated effects.
So for a Model3 cabinet: emulated FFB on ALL games, including M3 => Sega Rally 2 EPROM
As for the original FFB (available when you activate the RAW/M2PAC mode in the BackForceFeeder software (BFF for short) from njz3), since the PC behaves exactly like an original stack from an FFB point of view , behind it, the entire FFB system must correspond to it, including at the Driveboard EPROM level.
So for a Model3 cabinet:
Original FFB on Dirt Devils, Emergency Call Ambulance, Scud Race => Scud Race EPROM (because these 3 games use the same EPR-19388a EPROM originally)
Original FFB on Sega Rally 2, Nascar Arcade => Sega Rally 2 EPROM (because these 2 games use the same EPR-20512 EPROM originally)
Original FFB on Daytona USA 2 => Daytona USA 2 EPROM (only game to use the EPR-20985 EPROM originally)
Original FFB on F355 Challenge, F355 Challenge 2 => F355 EPROM (because these 2 games use the same EPR-21867 EPROM originally, but be careful with the DIPSwitches of the Driveboard)
See BigPanik's table to see all matches.
In your situation, as you have Sega Rally 2 EPROM on your driveboard (as you own a Sega Rally 2 cabinet), you can play all games with emulated FFB and Sega Rally 2 & Nascar Arcade with original FFB. For these 2 games, in the "Tune FFB" window you show, you can also check "Use compatible M2PAC raw mode for this game" to switch to Original FFB for these games while the general setting of BFF is set to Emulated FFB ("Comp_M3_SR2" as Target Hardware), which is very convinient.
Last, if you want to try original FFB on other M3 games, you have no choice but to burn and swap EPROMs on the Driveboard, or to use a MultiFFB board with or without a remote
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Excellent work with all this !!
An other similar solution is to put all the batch files you want in the emulator folder (no need to specify the path in that case) and put a shortcut to one of them in the startup folder ("copy" the batch file, then "paste shortcut" in the startup folder)
This enables EMULATED FFB. There are 2 options in BackForceFeeder: EMULATED FFB and ORIGINAL FFB. I'll give some precisions just below.
This "Tune FFB" windows allows to tune EMULATED FFB. And you can do that only there, the game's service menu FFB settings have no effect.
If you use ORIGINAL FFB, this window has no effect. Only game's service menu has.
Indeed, Calamity drivers, CRTEmuDriver, vmmaker are not needed when using VideoAmp.
Only running the Companion App (to choose a resolution/frequency) and selecting filters (to block other frequencies) are necessary
So, original FFB or emulated FFB.
At present, and to my knowledge (I will be corrected if I say nonsense), only Mame, Supermodel (M3) and some of the Model 2 Emulator games have the possibility of outputting the original FFB bytes. On the other hand, all emulators (including those mentioned above) can output the emulated FFB, either natively or via plugins.
On a "Model 3" Cab (or more precisely "which has an M3 driveboard", because that includes F355, but excludes LeMans 24), to take full advantage of the emulated FFB, you need the Sega Rally 2 EPROM on the driveboard, because it is the only EPROM that supports all emulated effects.
So for a Model3 cabinet: emulated FFB on ALL games, including M3 => Sega Rally 2 EPROM
As for the original FFB (available when you activate the RAW/M2PAC mode in the BackForceFeeder software (BFF for short) from njz3), since the PC behaves exactly like an original stack from an FFB point of view , behind it, the entire FFB system must correspond to it, including at the Driveboard EPROM level.
So for a Model3 cabinet:
Original FFB on Dirt Devils, Emergency Call Ambulance, Scud Race => Scud Race EPROM (because these 3 games use the same EPR-19388a EPROM originally)
Original FFB on Sega Rally 2, Nascar Arcade => Sega Rally 2 EPROM (because these 2 games use the same EPR-20512 EPROM originally)
Original FFB on Daytona USA 2 => Daytona USA 2 EPROM (only game to use the EPR-20985 EPROM originally)
Original FFB on F355 Challenge, F355 Challenge 2 => F355 EPROM (because these 2 games use the same EPR-21867 EPROM originally, but be careful with the DIPSwitches of the Driveboard)
See BigPanik's table to see all matches.
In your situation, as you have Sega Rally 2 EPROM on your driveboard (as you own a Sega Rally 2 cabinet), you can play all games with emulated FFB and Sega Rally 2 & Nascar Arcade with original FFB. For these 2 games, in the "Tune FFB" window you show, you can also check "Use compatible M2PAC raw mode for this game" to switch to Original FFB for these games while the general setting of BFF is set to Emulated FFB ("Comp_M3_SR2" as Target Hardware), which is very convinient.
Last, if you want to try original FFB on other M3 games, you have no choice but to burn and swap EPROMs on the Driveboard, or to use a MultiFFB board with or without a remote
Thanks for replying clarifying some things.
I was 99% sure I could go back to the factory AMD GPU drivers, but had already installed the Calamity ones when I figured out the issue with the cable, it works fine, but an extra step that's not needed for anyone else.
Seems I'm emulating Sega Rally 2 FFB when I could just pass through the raw FFB data as I already have the correct board and Eprom?
Have to say the emulated FFB feels great when playing D2 and Scud race, I'm sure the multi FFB add on is great for those looking for 100% authenticity, but for me I'm more than happy with the emulated FFB
Thanks for all your help
Exactly
To me, the difference is huge on Sega Rally 2, I don't like playing it with emulated FFB.
On Scud Race, the difference is noticeable as some effects are missing, but overall it's ok.
On Daytona 2, emulated FFB is close to original I feel. Not identical but both are enjoyable
Cool, looking forward to trying it with the OG FFB, Daytona2 felt great, just how I remembered it when I had the PCB although its been a couple of years, never played an original Scud race before, so nothing to compare it to, but felt good to me
Your right, just put it in Raw-M2Pac mode for SR2, really makes a difference when you feel them back to back, and now the start button lights too
Thanks dude
Hello,
I have a question regarding original sr2 ffb boards, hope someone can help me clarify that.
When power up the wheel turns right stays a few seconds then goes to the middle position without going to the left the digits show 8.8.
Is this normal? I suspect I have a problem in the driver board.
In the Game with the emulatedFFB setting I have some strange ffb movements if switch to originalFFB setting then no movements at all in the wheel.
I know these boards are old and prone to many issues, I just wanted to know what to expect from a fully functional one.
I have a question regarding original sr2 ffb boards, hope someone can help me clarify that.
When power up the wheel turns right stays a few seconds then goes to the middle position without going to the left the digits show 8.8.
Is this normal? I suspect I have a problem in the driver board.
In the Game with the emulatedFFB setting I have some strange ffb movements if switch to originalFFB setting then no movements at all in the wheel.
I know these boards are old and prone to many issues, I just wanted to know what to expect from a fully functional one.
Going back a bit here, but from memory it should swing all the way right, then all the way left then settle in the middle,
If you open Vjoy or in game, do you have full range of movement from the wheel, eg, steer fully left and right?
Thankfully my drive board has never broken, but I think 8.8 indicates normal operation, have seen some occasions when people have issues and they say ER, then a number.
If you open Vjoy or in game, do you have full range of movement from the wheel, eg, steer fully left and right?
Thankfully my drive board has never broken, but I think 8.8 indicates normal operation, have seen some occasions when people have issues and they say ER, then a number.
Hello Kev,
thanks for the reply, yes I have full range left and right, it seems the pot is ok.
I have another drive board but this one gives er02 right away when turn on, it would be great when you have time to confirm the start operation of the driver board, if not asking to much a video would be super!
I also tried with a second wheel from the other cab of sr2 twin and its the same, so I assume pot and encoder from the wheel are ok (I am not sure if the encoder plays a role here).
Hey Kev, this is looking great! Out of interest, is this purely for Model 2/3 boards or do you know if it would work with a Chihiro or Lindbergh based cab? Only reason I ask is that I have an Outrun 2 twin in my storage unit that i've had for several years that I never seem to get around to sorting! I think most of the force feedback boards are there and functioning (possibly) but both cabs are missing the Chihiro setups and they seem to be hard to find and expensive. I was wondering if I could put a PC based solution such as this in both cabs running Teknoparrot and the Lindbergh version of Outrun 2 (Outrun 2 SP DX?) running as original with coin mechs/dash lights/etc. and stuff working. As far as I know there's a Chihiro emulator now but it's only in its early days so has still got a long way to go before it's 100%. It'd be nice to have the cabs run on the original Chihiro hardware which i'd do if I could get the right parts for the right price but you could say PC based would be easier to replace if it goes wrong!
Cheers
Cheers
Yeah these are only for Model 3, and Model 2 versions available too, so I would say no for now, unless you swapped out Model 2/3 ffb hardware in the cabs first.Hey Kev, this is looking great! Out of interest, is this purely for Model 2/3 boards or do you know if it would work with a Chihiro or Lindbergh based cab? Only reason I ask is that I have an Outrun 2 twin in my storage unit that i've had for several years that I never seem to get around to sorting! I think most of the force feedback boards are there and functioning (possibly) but both cabs are missing the Chihiro setups and they seem to be hard to find and expensive. I was wondering if I could put a PC based solution such as this in both cabs running Teknoparrot and the Lindbergh version of Outrun 2 (Outrun 2 SP DX?) running as original with coin mechs/dash lights/etc. and stuff working. As far as I know there's a Chihiro emulator now but it's only in its early days so has still got a long way to go before it's 100%. It'd be nice to have the cabs run on the original Chihiro hardware which i'd do if I could get the right parts for the right price but you could say PC based would be easier to replace if it goes wrong!
Cheers
Although looking online Tibal said this last year, so possible there will be something more plug n play in the future....
