Are arcades viable given the cost of energy?

[Liam]

It's a complicated subject for sure mate.

I believe that this whole energy situation is not because of a pandemic or because of a single person ordering the illegal invasion of another country.

Energy cartels have have an oligopoly in place which has us by the balls and they can charge whatever they like. Energy prices have a profound effect at an economic scale and economies can crash and prosper at the drop of a hat. I don't really want to open a can of worms mentioning how they got to that position, but you can easily see the patterns by looking at the reasoning behind various wars, EG Iran in WWII, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya et all.

So for me, I'm reluctant to blame Putin for how much retro Arcades and the rest of us have to pay for energy. I really feel for the people of Ukraine, just as I feel for the people of any other countries that were illegally invaded.

Your thinking is right. Increases in fuel costs are being blamed on the Russia/Ukraine war, but oil broke out of a long-term downtrend and took off along with the price of everything else in the spring of 2021, long before that conflict ever started.

 

[BarrySlisk]

It's a complicated subject for sure mate.
Your thinking is right. Increases in fuel costs are being blamed on the Russia/Ukraine war, but oil broke out of a long-term downtrend and took off along with the price of everything else in the spring of 2021, long before that conflict ever started.

Yeah but still at a low point. Then it started to go down and then rose as the war began (although difficult to read the exact dates off the chart). You have to go back to 2015 to get higher prices. Of course it's the war.

BarrySlisk2022-08-29 07:24:06

 

[Retroman839]

I’m in spain with in-laws

3 bed house £800 per year
That’s a combined cost of electricity & gas.

Why is the uk having such a large increase?

Is it because we are outside the EU block?

It’s looking like a war of contrition also
So buckle up could be a long ride.
Hope it’s over very soon for everyone’s sake
Most of all the children of Ukrain whos farhers are on the front line.

Seem to remember the Ukrainians declaring they found a lot of oil and gas
In the Donetsk just before the invasion.

Could Russia want that oil and gas and a direct route to the EU & Black Sea.
To sell to all of us ?
Saudís could sell us all some on the cheap but that hasn’t happened yet…
For All that silly dancing our kings and leaders have done & bags of cash in M&S bags Charles gets given.

Forgot to mention uk major weapons deals with the Saudis,
Retroman8392022-08-29 08:32:07

 

[John Bennett]

I’m in spain with in-laws

3 bed house £800 per year
That’s a combined cost of electricity & gas.

That may have been the price, but like here, it's what's happening now and what's coming.

Rising gas and electricity bills: How does the UK compare with Europe? | Euronews

There's differences between countries for various reasons - subsidies, caps, sources of generation etc, but it's a lot more than it was for everyone.

Irrespective of what we think has caused the majority of the jump, this graph from a link I put up shows how frightening its now looking. The axis is non-linear too, actually making it look less bad for the predictions.

(Why are energy prices so high? Ofgem reveals 80% price cap rise | This is Money)

 

[Vamino]

There have been many recent economic and energy crisis, probably occurring even before 'The Great Game' and before other countries scrambled to acquire natural resources. Denial of resources to the enemy whilst acquiring resources being the goals.

These days people can easily check the history of Wars and alliances, especially within the member countries of Opec to see how energy acquisition profoundly affects economies. Obviously the victor writes history so things should sometimes be taken with a pinch of salt.

What we are currently experiencing is nothing new, there is a pattern where the result is the same, but with a variation on the reasons.

Crash and boom then rinse and repeat whilst keeping the population in a mode of fear/anxiety/uncertainty/confusion.
Vamino2022-08-29 20:30:19

 

[Retroman839]

How much revenue on petrol?

How much revenue on Gas

Could the gov have dropped revenue on all
Excessive energy costs? For exsample revenue on £1 a litre is ok
But above that I believe they should just drop it.
Why because they are not the normal prices.
Apparently effected by the war An outside influence.
So why are gov taking the revenue? Not fair.

For gov it looked like a great way to cover cost of covid.
But doubly compounds the issue for the citizens.
After a long austerity program..

So if nhs is privitised should we expect to pay tax on it as well
Tax on water
Tax on education ?

It’s time to Nationalise
Stop the monopolies
We are the losers Retroman8392022-08-29 14:10:24

 

[Vamino]

How much revenue on petrol?

How much revenue on Gas

Could the gov have dropped revenue on all
Excessive energy costs? For exsample revenue on £1 a litre is ok
But above that I believe they should just drop it.
Why because they are not the normal prices.
Apparently effected by the war An outside influence.
So why are gov taking the revenue? Not fair.

For gov it looked like a great way to cover cost of covid.
But doubly compounds the issue for the citizens.
After a long austerity program..

So if nhs is privitised should we expect to pay tax on it as well
Tax on water
Tax on education ?

It’s time to Nationalise
Stop the monopolies

We are the losers

 

[BarrySlisk]

One thing to remember, especially for a country like mine, Denmark, is that energy is taxed 200% or more.

This means that when the price rises, then most of the rise is just taxes.

So the war is to blame but mostly the taxes because they hit harder than the actual rise in the market.

EDIT: It's more like 130% for petrol. Without taxes a liter of petrol for your car would cost 5 kroner. With taxes it's around 12 kroner.

For water it's 260% when tax and VAT is added.

Tax on electricity is around 300% (so 31 kroner becomes 100 kroner).
BarrySlisk2022-08-29 21:37:48

 

[Vamino]

One thing to remember, especially for a country like mine, Denmark, is that energy is taxed 200% or more.

This means that when the price rises, then most of the rise is just taxes.

So the war is to blame but mostly the taxes because they hit harder than the actual rise in the market.

200% energy tax is shocking!

Do you have to pay additional taxes similar to the Uk's council tax?

 

[BarrySlisk]

Do you have to pay additional taxes similar to the Uk's council tax?

Denmark is the highest or second most taxed country in the world. There is tax on everything?

Nuts, sugar, air in softice, 25% VAT, etc. etc.

We have property tax. The estimated value of your land without buildings is taxed at 0,028% yearly.

Then we have property value tax which is a tax on the land+buildings. That value is taxed at 0,92%.
If your property is worth more than 348870 then you are taxed 3% on the value that exceeds that amount yearly.

Cars used to be taxed 180% + 25% VAT (on value + tax). Now it's 150% for normal cars and lower for really small crappy cars.

 

[Liam]

It's a complicated subject for sure mate.
Your thinking is right. Increases in fuel costs are being blamed on the Russia/Ukraine war, but oil broke out of a long-term downtrend and took off along with the price of everything else in the spring of 2021, long before that conflict ever started.

Yeah but still at a low point. Then it started to go down and then rose as the war began (although difficult to read the exact dates off the chart). You have to go back to 2015 to get higher prices. Of course it's the war.

The oil price was at $95 before the war began. That's not a low point.

 

[Fantazia2]

Can someone explain why electricy is going up in price?

Cos a big proportion of electricity is generated in this country by burning gas. If we'd built a shedload of those windmills vested interests keep trying to get us to hate, we'd be sound.

Consipiracy theory maybe but i think the government has inadvertible caused inflation by injecting too much money into the ecomony recently. Rather than building millennium domes and wheels which doesnt turn directly into real dispoable income, they put it straight into the pockets of consumers.

Now rather than collect it back directly through taxation they just collect it via utility companies instead. Perfect way to maintain popularity and divert thr blame imo. Bsc in econonics not that its done me much good

It should never have been privatised in the first place, something on the level or gas/electric that pretty much every home needs and relies on shouldnt have been turned into a massive money making machine.

Ive got zero sympathy for the majority of the companies that went under last year at the start of the crisis, most of these being companies that only real purpose was to act as a middleman and make a profit for essentially just collecting meter readings and payment from customer. They didnt produce it and they didnt supply it.

Its almost Ironic that the price cap that was brought in to stop energy firms from making a massive profit from people who didnt have the sense to shop around and just sat on whatever tarrif the energy company wanted to charge which caused them all to fail.

being ripped off by energy companies for sitting on a variable tarrif and not shopping around for a batter deal is the thing that brought most of them down.

 

[BarrySlisk]

"It should never have been privatised in the first place, something on the level or gas/electric that pretty much every home needs and relies on shouldnt have been turned into a massive money making machine."

All farms and super markets should be nationalised then? Every home needs food after all..

 

[Fantazia2]

"It should never have been privatised in the first place, something on the level or gas/electric that pretty much every home needs and relies on shouldnt have been turned into a massive money making machine."

All farms and super markets should be nationalised then? Every home needs food after all..

Its a fair point, I probably could have phrased that better, but in a super market you dont have the tills being run by selection of other companies that just put a markup on the products simply for adding up what youve bought and collecting payment for it.

 

[kingtreelo]

'Bogeyman'? The primary drive for increasing gas prices is because Putin has invaded Ukraine and created the biggest war in Europe since WW2.

Granted, there's other lesser factors, but the above IS the primary reason, and I'm not sure why retroman was berated as being 'political' for mentioning it on page 1. And being hit with unbelievably high energy costs is horrible, but I take some small comfort in we're not the ones being hit daily with rockets (and lets hope we're never are, as the ones that can hit us are civilization-ending).

Didnt seem to affect other coutries like ours, for example France

 

[Vamino]

Do you have to pay additional taxes similar to the Uk's council tax?

Denmark is the highest or second most taxed country in the world. There is tax on everything?

Nuts, sugar, air in softice, 25% VAT, etc. etc.

We have property tax. The estimated value of your land without buildings is taxed at 0,028% yearly.

Then we have property value tax which is a tax on the land+buildings. That value is taxed at 0,92%.
If your property is worth more than 348870 then you are taxed 3% on the value that exceeds that amount yearly.

Cars used to be taxed 180% + 25% VAT (on value + tax). Now it's 150% for normal cars and lower for really small crappy cars.

Thanks for the insight.

Never knew about the property tax.
Just read Wikipedia, never knew there was a 0.7% Church tax either! Seems you can claim exemption from that one though.

 

[Vorbis]

At the risk of upsetting anyone with levity, I'm married with children so most of my money dissapears before I see it. Pretty sure that constitutes the highest tax rate in the world

 

[Vorbis]

On a slightly more serious note UK tax rates are ridiculous, with NI, income tax, vat, council tax the government sees more of my income than I do. Not sure how that is fair and you're supposed to feel grateful when they let you have some of that back! Vorbis2022-08-30 21:46:41

 

[BarrySlisk]

Pretty sure that constitutes the highest tax rate in the world

That, or arcade collecting!

 

[Vorbis]

Pretty sure that constitutes the highest tax rate in the world

That, or arcade collecting!

You've either got a very big collection or a very cheap wife