Asteroids G05-801 problem

RGP

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I can rule out the game board amd transistors under load.

My own asteroids cab is sitting next to this monitor with an extension cable (i'll be posting this in todays vlog on RGP2 later tonight).

If I plug my output into my deflection on this tube with its own regulator, hv, transistors - everything except the deflection board, it works amd the picture is beautiful.
 

ColinD

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If you can swap over the deflection board with a good worker, and it works then you know for sure its that !! ( I don't quite understand your description above you see - but you do say everything except the delfection board so kind of makes sense !!)ColinD2017-02-17 21:33:49
 

RGP

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Right then....

Got back today and took a few quick screenshots of the scope.

In these tests there is a signal present on both X and Y inputs and as mentioned above, works perfectly on this tube with my own deflection board from a working 801.

This is the yoke pin 3 (Vertical) end of R620:



This is the other end of R620 (GND effectively):



This is the Pin 2 and of R720 (Horizontal):



This is the other end of R720 (GND):



If i'm not mistaken this looks like a degree of DC offset going on as suspected by Col.
 

ColinD

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You should not be measuring anything at ground and would expect a flat line !! - Is the Monitor Power supply shorted ??? - Where are you clipping the scope probe ground too ? - You may have clipped it to the monitor ac power input by mistake ?ColinD2017-02-20 21:05:55
 

ColinD

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It appears that the MJE15030/31's didn't work quite right (and have made some edits/notes above).... I'll let James update this....
ColinD2017-04-24 19:36:52
 

RGP

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So finally this is fixed.

I rebuilt the X deflection according to the schematic for a G05-801 and replaced Q704/Q705 with MJE15031 and Q706 with MJE15030.

At this point the R720 stopped trying to burn and this is what I got on screen:



No, the camera is not out of focus, you can see my t-shirt is in focus in the background, the best description I can give is it looking like someone scrubbing a pencil on the screen while drawing.

The Z Blanking is obviously working properly.

I changed the transistors and it still happened, double checked i'd crossed the legs over properly etc.

Then I decided to look at another deflection board.

This is the Q704/705 section in question:



The original parts on here are MPSU55 and MPSU56 which have different characteristics to MPSU57 and MPSU07.

Yet, the schematic clearly defined Q704 / Q705 as MPSU57 so i'd subbed in according to various conversations we've had about this.

I checked another couple of known working G05-801's and sure enough they had MPSU55 and 56 on in those places.

I looked at the spec sheet for those and found the hFE was different to MJE15031 which I wondered if that was the issue.

Anyway, I messaged Colin and he gave me the electronic version of a punch in the arm to remind me about BD237/BD238's.

I looked at the specs of BD237/238 and they look the same to me as their MJE...30/31 counterparts.

But, I put 2 x BD238 in Q704 and Q705 with the legs crossed over appropriately and...



No vector scrubbing.

I am left back with one issue which is some jagged tops to some of the vectors and the occasional problem with the brightness pot but I can come back to those later.

So I can confirm that BD237/BD238 work in G05's in place of the schematic mentioned MPSU07/MPSU57.

The only thing I can think of is that the deflection boards I looked at all had 1980 on them, the manuals only go up as far as 1979 - did Atari / Electrohome make some change due to parts supply which involved changing another passive part that biases the transistor differently.
 

Mitchell Gant

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Hmmm, interesting. Looks like there's some high frequency oscillation on your X axis with MJE15030/1 transistors. I thinks I've seen similar problems when I've tried to fix deflection boards with MJE's too now you mention it. I did buy a handful of MPSU's and suffer the cost after trying a few MJE's.

I just looked at the datasheets for the MJE's and the MPSU55 / MPSU57.

The MJE's have a higher capacitance, about double from what I can tell (MJE 30pF against 15pF for the MPSU's).

The small signal current gain bandwidth is lower on the MJE's too, but it's not a direct comparison as the current, voltage and test frequency are different between the datasheets.

So the MJE's in that circuit tip into oscillation because of the slightly different characteristics I'd guess. I'm no analogue transistor designer, so don't really understand all the nuances of these amplifier circuits, still got a lot to learn!

I'd better buy a bunch of BD237/8's then had I?
 

ColinD

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Yes, I thought that it might be ringing, there is probably a way of damping it down but the BD's are low cost and seem to be a little more beefy (25 Watts) than the MPSU's which are around 10W. The BD's also have a lower bandwidth so that might help too. I'm no expert either when it comes to these types of circuit so it could be down to biasing regarding the cross over point or something ?? - There is probably an expert on the vector list who can suggest good reasons.

It would be interesting to go through the deflection circuits of both the g05 and the wg6100 , examining closely to see if there are any subtle differences. Afaik they are both much the same.

Cheers, Col

PS... I thought two of the transistors looked a bit ratty too....

xyratty.JPG


ColinD2017-04-25 18:56:18
 

the-hat

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Hi all,

firstly thanks for the info above

next, my monitor is broke !

It was blowing fuses and the resistors at R705, R708, R713 and R714 burnt, so ive replaced those, the fuses, also replaced all transistors:

2n3716 for MJ15003
2n3792 for MJ15004
TIS98 for MPSA06 in reverse
MPSU07 for BD237 swapping legs B and C
MPSU57 for BD238 swapping legs B and C
2N2906 for same

Just plugged it back in and R619 has burnt. Spot killer is on and I have a solid dot in the middle of the screen so no deflection at all (but at least HV is working!).
There is no short from chassis transistors to chassis.

Does anyone have any ideas where to go from here ?
 
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