Is It Time To Leave This Hobby ??
- Thread starter TheDaddy
- Start date
neo-geo-mvs
Active member
ben76 said:just wanted to say you're a good bloke and true collector imoneo-geo-mvs said:
- Ben
Cheers Ben
I do think there will be a crash again
Look at 70’s and early 80’s stuff
It’s cheaper now
When I started about 2006 the early stuff was a fortune
And the later 80/90’s stuff was cheap
Bubble bobble was £50
Gradually the people who care about that era move on
Look at all the late 70’s mechanical stuff
Nobody really gives a sh*te anymore apart from a select few
All the 25/30 year olds now have zero memory of double dragon, bubble bobble etc...
I’m considering selling some stuff as I think hold onto it all too long and it will go the other way
Yes maybe Japan will still care
But for sure the next gen of younger uk gamer won’t remember it and even care soon
Look at 70’s and early 80’s stuff
It’s cheaper now
When I started about 2006 the early stuff was a fortune
And the later 80/90’s stuff was cheap
Bubble bobble was £50
Gradually the people who care about that era move on
Look at all the late 70’s mechanical stuff
Nobody really gives a sh*te anymore apart from a select few
All the 25/30 year olds now have zero memory of double dragon, bubble bobble etc...
I’m considering selling some stuff as I think hold onto it all too long and it will go the other way
Yes maybe Japan will still care
But for sure the next gen of younger uk gamer won’t remember it and even care soon
I have a lot to say on this topic but won’t bother as it’s been said a lot before.
People need to do the legwork to get bargains these days as they very rarely just appear.
The most important topic should be——
HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH FOR A GOOD PRICE!!!!!!
People need to do the legwork to get bargains these days as they very rarely just appear.
The most important topic should be——
HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH FOR A GOOD PRICE!!!!!!
jugemscloud
Active member
theres been a few studies and a lot of anecdotal information out there about high end collectables that says otherwise regarding market downturns coinciding with recessions the key points being;
those with money to invest look to things that will remain stable due to lessening returns from the stock market/interest rates and money exchanges
the low/medium end of markets £100-£500 item range tend to dip the most during these times due to the people in this bracket needing to cash out due to personal availability of funds
but in general even if there is a dip they have all continued to trend upward, the major counter examples which are somewhat in line with what people have said in regard to new generations being disinterested would be antiques and particularly things that would be broadly considered kitsch like hummel figures
Do i think that the arcade collectible genre is considered high end by the general public, certainly not, but there is now a significant number of examples of items in the £1000-2000 range and few that go beyond that. arcade gaming also doesn't have the history other genres have but for example comic book collecting took 30+ years for they key issues of the silver age to routinely get into 5 figure territory and now the real high end is at 6-7 figures for a select few examples. though this analogy is somewhat flawed in that there was continuous interest in the IP in its native format (tens of thousands of customers per month) for those titles which was bolstered by usage in other media particularly film and tv.
Whilst i don't see video games reaching that sort of money at anytime whatsoever there have been attempts to manipulate the market and outsiders into believing it is possible; see the sealed 1st/2nd? edition of super mario bros from last year, where the buyers were a conglomerate of the owner of the auction house that was selling it, one of the original owners and someone else iirc and purporting an open auction sale price of £100k, and also the great aes fraud from a few years ago were several people paid around £20-25k for entirely fake games demonstrating that within particular sub-genres people will put that kind of money into this hobby for single items even with dubious provenance (literally i found these in my garage in that example). IMO what could be considered the high end is somewhere between £2k-10k in general for video games at the present time although i haven't kept up with console pricing trends for a few years.
i expect even in a recession to see dedicated cabs like robotron, tron, star wars etc not to take any sort of hit in their sale value, the same going for the iconic game pcbs (bubble bobble, gradius, batsugun etc) and the stuff that is the high end within that bracket to continue to rise, though even within this there is a disparity in number of examples that still exist so even between games comparisons cannot really be drawn.
jugemscloud2020-03-08 16:10:01
those with money to invest look to things that will remain stable due to lessening returns from the stock market/interest rates and money exchanges
the low/medium end of markets £100-£500 item range tend to dip the most during these times due to the people in this bracket needing to cash out due to personal availability of funds
but in general even if there is a dip they have all continued to trend upward, the major counter examples which are somewhat in line with what people have said in regard to new generations being disinterested would be antiques and particularly things that would be broadly considered kitsch like hummel figures
Do i think that the arcade collectible genre is considered high end by the general public, certainly not, but there is now a significant number of examples of items in the £1000-2000 range and few that go beyond that. arcade gaming also doesn't have the history other genres have but for example comic book collecting took 30+ years for they key issues of the silver age to routinely get into 5 figure territory and now the real high end is at 6-7 figures for a select few examples. though this analogy is somewhat flawed in that there was continuous interest in the IP in its native format (tens of thousands of customers per month) for those titles which was bolstered by usage in other media particularly film and tv.
Whilst i don't see video games reaching that sort of money at anytime whatsoever there have been attempts to manipulate the market and outsiders into believing it is possible; see the sealed 1st/2nd? edition of super mario bros from last year, where the buyers were a conglomerate of the owner of the auction house that was selling it, one of the original owners and someone else iirc and purporting an open auction sale price of £100k, and also the great aes fraud from a few years ago were several people paid around £20-25k for entirely fake games demonstrating that within particular sub-genres people will put that kind of money into this hobby for single items even with dubious provenance (literally i found these in my garage in that example). IMO what could be considered the high end is somewhere between £2k-10k in general for video games at the present time although i haven't kept up with console pricing trends for a few years.
i expect even in a recession to see dedicated cabs like robotron, tron, star wars etc not to take any sort of hit in their sale value, the same going for the iconic game pcbs (bubble bobble, gradius, batsugun etc) and the stuff that is the high end within that bracket to continue to rise, though even within this there is a disparity in number of examples that still exist so even between games comparisons cannot really be drawn.
jugemscloud2020-03-08 16:10:01
John Bennett
Senior Member
It just plateaus. I remember when ZX80's shot up to £300 about 15 years ago (we flogged one for 3000% profit
.
You might find one day they're all worthless, but if that happens you'll be more worried about buying tins of beans, fuel and shotgun cartridges than the next minty green circuit board with original stickers.
It's all strange anyway. You could make an emulation device (FPGA, embedded CPU, whatever), then if you got Taito to put a label on it, folk would be throwing hundreds of £££ at you.
You might find one day they're all worthless, but if that happens you'll be more worried about buying tins of beans, fuel and shotgun cartridges than the next minty green circuit board with original stickers.
It's all strange anyway. You could make an emulation device (FPGA, embedded CPU, whatever), then if you got Taito to put a label on it, folk would be throwing hundreds of £££ at you.
this thread has been interestingly entertaining, and takes you through all the ups and downs and emotions of arcade collecting.
I may have a fair few, but if I could only afford a mame upright, or for what ever reason they were for example £2k, I'd have just one and be happy at that. If sega rally was £10k, I'd be kicking myself that I didn't know about them when they were £500, but not have a problem at the people paying it.
If you own just one machine, I think you are in the "fortunate" bracket, so I think most people here are fortunate.
Its a tough prediction to make - about the future.
I too have thought the next gen of colllecters won't be interested.
But still people born after many classic cars - want one.
Coca Cola Fridges and restored Petrol Pumps, are desirable, I wouldn't mind one, they are well before my time by like 30+ years, but my age range still like them and they are £5k and only good to look at. I think these markets could be a factor in making arcades attractable. Out run at 25 / 50 % the price, is as big and impactful, plays a tune, lights the man cave, and you can play on it with your beer.
So because gaming will be around, and game collectors will be, Im not sure the demand will fall anytime soon for the older stuff, as we know its playable, sometimes simple genius, and history of what the next gen are still into. (also coins/guns/trainers - collectors buy old ones from before their time)
Also people keep saying the boards are dying etc - this will mean less early stuff, so I think maybe the boards will die off quicker than the interested parties, meaning less supply and more demand, even though qty of demand falls.
I think over a 30 year period, prices will go up.
But during that period there will be some big drops and increases. I think we are in blip of increased prices on the time line right now. Retro is popular, people are panic buying because the stuff is drying up, people are swearing at each other on forums, and no doubt fighting in the super market.
Arcade bars/venues have definitely contributed to increased prices, simply because the asset to them is greater as it makes money, thus worth more, and they will pay more. You can't pay £5k too much on a bunch of machines if you plan to make minimum £50k a year because you have them/need them.
But I do think the novelty of these bars will wear off like juice bars, gin bars and cocktail bars. Joe public is happy to live the retro gaming vibe a few times, but then they are happy to see point blank again in the next gaming bars in 2035. They don't need regular doses of 1 small area of life's nostalgia.
I think due to the generation timing, the 90s stuff I have been interested in hasn't in general been that costly, or because of the size and weight you get in a twin racer, it feels reasonable. But I think outside of the early stuff discussion of value going up and down, these 90s sega/namco machines will go a fair bit yet. Sega Rally 1 will peak above out run 2 at some point i think. I don't know if this is a personal point of view or what, but I feel Naomi's etc were the last gen (again maybe due to my age) so I think "classics" didn't really happen after this. This is when consoles took over and arcades died.
But anyway, good points, good discussion, Interesting concepts amongst the post..... but everything will be fine.
Sbdesign2020-03-08 09:33:00
I may have a fair few, but if I could only afford a mame upright, or for what ever reason they were for example £2k, I'd have just one and be happy at that. If sega rally was £10k, I'd be kicking myself that I didn't know about them when they were £500, but not have a problem at the people paying it.
If you own just one machine, I think you are in the "fortunate" bracket, so I think most people here are fortunate.
Its a tough prediction to make - about the future.
I too have thought the next gen of colllecters won't be interested.
But still people born after many classic cars - want one.
Coca Cola Fridges and restored Petrol Pumps, are desirable, I wouldn't mind one, they are well before my time by like 30+ years, but my age range still like them and they are £5k and only good to look at. I think these markets could be a factor in making arcades attractable. Out run at 25 / 50 % the price, is as big and impactful, plays a tune, lights the man cave, and you can play on it with your beer.
So because gaming will be around, and game collectors will be, Im not sure the demand will fall anytime soon for the older stuff, as we know its playable, sometimes simple genius, and history of what the next gen are still into. (also coins/guns/trainers - collectors buy old ones from before their time)
Also people keep saying the boards are dying etc - this will mean less early stuff, so I think maybe the boards will die off quicker than the interested parties, meaning less supply and more demand, even though qty of demand falls.
I think over a 30 year period, prices will go up.
But during that period there will be some big drops and increases. I think we are in blip of increased prices on the time line right now. Retro is popular, people are panic buying because the stuff is drying up, people are swearing at each other on forums, and no doubt fighting in the super market.
Arcade bars/venues have definitely contributed to increased prices, simply because the asset to them is greater as it makes money, thus worth more, and they will pay more. You can't pay £5k too much on a bunch of machines if you plan to make minimum £50k a year because you have them/need them.
But I do think the novelty of these bars will wear off like juice bars, gin bars and cocktail bars. Joe public is happy to live the retro gaming vibe a few times, but then they are happy to see point blank again in the next gaming bars in 2035. They don't need regular doses of 1 small area of life's nostalgia.
I think due to the generation timing, the 90s stuff I have been interested in hasn't in general been that costly, or because of the size and weight you get in a twin racer, it feels reasonable. But I think outside of the early stuff discussion of value going up and down, these 90s sega/namco machines will go a fair bit yet. Sega Rally 1 will peak above out run 2 at some point i think. I don't know if this is a personal point of view or what, but I feel Naomi's etc were the last gen (again maybe due to my age) so I think "classics" didn't really happen after this. This is when consoles took over and arcades died.
But anyway, good points, good discussion, Interesting concepts amongst the post..... but everything will be fine.
Sbdesign2020-03-08 09:33:00
I wouldn't be so sure about the market dropping. I'm 35 and remember arcades vividly. As would most 30yr olds so that's another 40 plus years before we all die off.
Also as long as video games are still popular people will gravitate towards arcades. My friends kid is 3 and loves Pacman. Built his own maze because his mum had it in her phone. The Arcades are were these things began so people want to have the 'thing that started it all'. I bet the guy playing Street Fighter 10 in 20 years would think it cool to have his own SF2 cab.
20year olds still buy Beatles records
Also as long as video games are still popular people will gravitate towards arcades. My friends kid is 3 and loves Pacman. Built his own maze because his mum had it in her phone. The Arcades are were these things began so people want to have the 'thing that started it all'. I bet the guy playing Street Fighter 10 in 20 years would think it cool to have his own SF2 cab.
20year olds still buy Beatles records
Shinobi74 said:
There is stuff left. Recent raids in the last 12 months prove that. It's the ten thousand phone calls and haggling that are the issue. Plus I know Operator's with stashes they refuse to let go of.
I think a lot of the raid stuff does get passed around. I think a lot of sales are done behind closed doors.
I used to put raids out in the public FS section after some negative feedback of other raids that have happened. I did two or three if you take a look. I had to stop as it became unbearable. I had people messaging me complaining why I hadnt offered X to them as they had been looking for it for X years, and why did the other person have it. It was hellish and I stopped.
These are the times, as I have always done I emplore you to pick up the phone book / internet and get phoning.
Shinobi74 said:
This is simply not true. I've done a dozen raids in the last 5 years, many of which were brand new contacts that had never had their inventory looked at before.
Once you've done a couple, and have shown you can be trusted to actually turn up, take stuff away and pay fair money you'll be amazed how that leads to other ops getting passed your number. Most operators still running arcade stuff usually know each other one way or another! One raid we did in the South-West the op called up a friend of his while we were there who brought along a boot full of stuff he'd been storing and we bought all that too.
Small numbers of people have to do the raids, it just never works otherwise. I've tried doing them with people I don't know that well and it's always ended badly. You have to take the good stuff AND the sh*t, sometimes that means filling half a van with skip fodder just to get in the door. Sometimes a huge pile of cash is required, and 24 hours notice (or less!), one time I got a call to say there's a dozen Sega cockpits outside, come and take what you want for £100 a person but it has to go today. Not everyone can store an entire Luton full of stuff with no notice.
I sell everything I get from raids on this forum. There's tons of it listed now. A lot of the cabs and stuff I show pics of in the raid threads I get pm's from people I know on here who say they'd like to buy them, and so I sell direct to them. I have a pretty good idea of who is looking for what, and it's always nice to be able to pair a cab with a person who's genuinely been looking for one for years. It frequently works the other way as well, my lovely Playchoice 10 cab was from Jase38's raid.
Most of the guys on here are proper collectors, those who aren't get weeded out pretty quickly.
Demand and supply
Well it is all about demand and supply. And you are not the only one from the 80ies who wants to have products of that era. This does increase the price, just normal economy rules of supply and demand.
I also believe the people who have a more conservative brain have sticked more with their past than people who "go with the flow".
Meaning that you probably have never really "left" the hobby behind so you have experienced the period that nobody wanted the damn thing, so it went for cheap.
But also these people have fond memories of the past, their kids have grown older and have a life of their own and dad or mom finally got the time to go back to their childhood memories and go out and seek for these products.
Inflation
But there is also another thing behind price rize and that is the inflation. All things are more expensive than 15 years ago, food, housing, taxes are higher and salaries have raised (some have made big jumps, some have made small jumps).
This also has an effect on the price.
Arcade Hall is on the rize
There is another movement and that is that Arcade Halls and Video Game Museums are appearing suddenly all over the place. Which means there is also a professional demand for arcade machines and hardware.
Retro is hot now
Then see all the YouTube video's about retro computers, it is astonishing.
In the early days of youtube you hardly couldn't find any retro computing video's. And now you can find any game in an entire longplay of any platform. Any computer in every detail even unboxed and unscrewed up to every last bit and part. Amazing. Means that a lot of people are after it!
The same counts for Pinball machines... this is really not funny. 10K euro easily for a Medieval Madness pinball machine.... Remember the days that they went for around 1000 euro?
But what about a Ferrari F40, I remember the time I could buy one for around 100.000 Dutch guilders (compared to Euro that is below 45.000 euro). Now these cars go over a million.
Do you need all or can you live with a smaller collection
You should ask yourself, why do you need your entire hardware collection?
Why not sell half and buy the other things you desire?
raycade2020-03-08 11:07:16
Well it is all about demand and supply. And you are not the only one from the 80ies who wants to have products of that era. This does increase the price, just normal economy rules of supply and demand.
I also believe the people who have a more conservative brain have sticked more with their past than people who "go with the flow".
Meaning that you probably have never really "left" the hobby behind so you have experienced the period that nobody wanted the damn thing, so it went for cheap.
But also these people have fond memories of the past, their kids have grown older and have a life of their own and dad or mom finally got the time to go back to their childhood memories and go out and seek for these products.
Inflation
But there is also another thing behind price rize and that is the inflation. All things are more expensive than 15 years ago, food, housing, taxes are higher and salaries have raised (some have made big jumps, some have made small jumps).
This also has an effect on the price.
Arcade Hall is on the rize
There is another movement and that is that Arcade Halls and Video Game Museums are appearing suddenly all over the place. Which means there is also a professional demand for arcade machines and hardware.
Retro is hot now
Then see all the YouTube video's about retro computers, it is astonishing.
In the early days of youtube you hardly couldn't find any retro computing video's. And now you can find any game in an entire longplay of any platform. Any computer in every detail even unboxed and unscrewed up to every last bit and part. Amazing. Means that a lot of people are after it!
The same counts for Pinball machines... this is really not funny. 10K euro easily for a Medieval Madness pinball machine.... Remember the days that they went for around 1000 euro?
But what about a Ferrari F40, I remember the time I could buy one for around 100.000 Dutch guilders (compared to Euro that is below 45.000 euro). Now these cars go over a million.
Do you need all or can you live with a smaller collection
You should ask yourself, why do you need your entire hardware collection?
Why not sell half and buy the other things you desire?
raycade2020-03-08 11:07:16
mysticmonk
Active member
bonehead said:
Yeah thats a big one, "legwork"!
In January I drove 4 hours to meet a dude, all arranged. 15 mins away, he cancels the whole thing. Then another 4 hour drive back. For nothing. I was ready to murder
Some pcbs I picked up recently was the result of over a year of phonecalls.
Loads more of that thing. So I suppose it's easy to not realise the effort involved in finding stuff.
Soooo... You have three options,
1) get lucky
2) spend money
3) spend time
And it's usually all three together
If you’re hobby is collecting stuff it’s not as cheap as it was.
If your hobby is playing stuff and talking about it with like minded people, it’s probably not been as good since the 80s.
10 years ago there wasn’t a place you could go to play these games. Now you’ve got:
Neon Knights (my place)
Arcade Club
Retro Arcade Warrington
Retro Replay
NQ64 (few emulators but some original stuff)
And lots of other boys and girls putting it out there. And trust me, it’s really hard work for not a huge pay off doing it. So don’t fear that the little independent ones are hoarding all your stuff and making Scrooge McDuck’ian style vaults of cash. We’re working our back sides off for the love of the subject. I’m still working my full time job.
It might drive some prices up, but some people may have never been able to afford to get Outrun, T&F, Donkey Kong, DK Jr, Pacman, Space Invaders etc in one room. Now you can pay a tenner and do the lot.
If you love classic arcade machines, barring the 80s, these are the halcyon days and we should embrace it as it might not be around for long & these machines will eventually all die!
If your hobby is playing stuff and talking about it with like minded people, it’s probably not been as good since the 80s.
10 years ago there wasn’t a place you could go to play these games. Now you’ve got:
Neon Knights (my place)
Arcade Club
Retro Arcade Warrington
Retro Replay
NQ64 (few emulators but some original stuff)
And lots of other boys and girls putting it out there. And trust me, it’s really hard work for not a huge pay off doing it. So don’t fear that the little independent ones are hoarding all your stuff and making Scrooge McDuck’ian style vaults of cash. We’re working our back sides off for the love of the subject. I’m still working my full time job.
It might drive some prices up, but some people may have never been able to afford to get Outrun, T&F, Donkey Kong, DK Jr, Pacman, Space Invaders etc in one room. Now you can pay a tenner and do the lot.
If you love classic arcade machines, barring the 80s, these are the halcyon days and we should embrace it as it might not be around for long & these machines will eventually all die!
I guess the post fixates on the bad and greed will always be a factor for some.
I must admit I cant justify the price for boards so that has been less issue for me.
Personally I have enjoyed people I have met via the forum and never flipped anything.
I have only ever had three cabinets
A 14" woodie (From westbury) which I got for free of someone at work who'd had it in the mums house for ten years
It was more like triggers broom but all nice up and running after replacing all the wiring , the PSU and adding an Amiga monitor. That has a 2 human pi in it This was a great way to learn how it all worked !
Then I have a 2 player Cab that someone gave me for free (from Wales)and that just needed a new monitor as was scratched and I decided to use a LCD panel and picked one up from a forum member from Leicester penhros who was really pleasant. That hasa 2human pc in it.
Then my 3rd cabinet was a neo geo which was not overpriced from muddymusic which I had fun with for a while but due to space issues I needed to sell. That was not flipped and think I sold for same i bought it. Again picked up locally by another member who was pleasant too.
Then someone but a couple of pashislo and due to circumstance wanted to split the delivery so I ended up buying a thunderbirds one for £90.
I think only thing I am missing if for a free fruit machine although I was offered one but my wife was ill and was just not the right time to add to the very little space we had already !!
I always try to give back sand often help with if people need roms or dreamcast help etc
I enjoy the people part of hobby.
I must admit I cant justify the price for boards so that has been less issue for me.
Personally I have enjoyed people I have met via the forum and never flipped anything.
I have only ever had three cabinets
A 14" woodie (From westbury) which I got for free of someone at work who'd had it in the mums house for ten years
It was more like triggers broom but all nice up and running after replacing all the wiring , the PSU and adding an Amiga monitor. That has a 2 human pi in it This was a great way to learn how it all worked !
Then I have a 2 player Cab that someone gave me for free (from Wales)and that just needed a new monitor as was scratched and I decided to use a LCD panel and picked one up from a forum member from Leicester penhros who was really pleasant. That hasa 2human pc in it.
Then my 3rd cabinet was a neo geo which was not overpriced from muddymusic which I had fun with for a while but due to space issues I needed to sell. That was not flipped and think I sold for same i bought it. Again picked up locally by another member who was pleasant too.
Then someone but a couple of pashislo and due to circumstance wanted to split the delivery so I ended up buying a thunderbirds one for £90.
I think only thing I am missing if for a free fruit machine although I was offered one but my wife was ill and was just not the right time to add to the very little space we had already !!
I always try to give back sand often help with if people need roms or dreamcast help etc
I enjoy the people part of hobby.
I go by the rule of only buying what you will enjoy and use.
Future resale price then becomes irrelevant, if you get some of your money back well's thats a nice bonus.
Arcade were always about taking your money anyway
I find most of the best deals are made direct collector to collector, some of the games I enjoy the most are the ones that have been acquired randomly at a decent price - like once I was passing a pub that was being refurbished and there was a whole load of cocktail table sitting on the lawn.
jimmerd2020-03-08 16:30:02
Future resale price then becomes irrelevant, if you get some of your money back well's thats a nice bonus.
Arcade were always about taking your money anyway
I find most of the best deals are made direct collector to collector, some of the games I enjoy the most are the ones that have been acquired randomly at a decent price - like once I was passing a pub that was being refurbished and there was a whole load of cocktail table sitting on the lawn.
jimmerd2020-03-08 16:30:02
If all the under 30's had stuck to collecting their Pokemon cards and not insisting how robotron or outrun is their grail ?? this hobby may have remained affordable . A big part of this for me is the nostalgia ... I was there ... I fail to understand the logic of anyone being into this hobby that had never set foot in an arcade in their life . Its all a bit cringey .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvY4881TY4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvY4881TY4
