Logic Analyser (Again!)

[guddler]

At one point, there was a logic analyser discussed that was a scope and 16 channel analyser all built into one. It was an order direct from China jobbie and I wanted to hunt about and see if there was either a UK supplier with proper backup or some other option.

I'm VERY tempted by this scope, but I'd rather have the one with the logic analyser built in too:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-oscilloscopes/7545519/

I've trawled through back as far as when a bunch of us bought the Logic clones and I know it was after that - can anyone remember what it was and where it was? It must be buried in another thread somewhere...

 

[guddler]

[EDIT] Never mind - found it. A lot more money than I remember though!!

Search Rigol DS01052D on eBay.

Anyone that knows about digital scopes comment on the one I listed above to know if it's any good in terms of a replacement for my old 20Mhz analog scope that takes up 3 times as much space as it should? Primarily using it for logic level signals but also monitor signals (Sync etc.) and also analog troubleshooting.

 

[Adrian Purser]

I don't know about that particular model but I can highly recommend the HP 54645D. I bought one a while ago after using them for years at work. They are quite an old bit of kit (1997 I think) but they are great to use. I paid about £250 for mine but that soon reached £500 in total with shipping and taxes/duty.

 

[guddler]

Only problem with one of those is the size. A major driving factor here is to significantly reduce the footprint of my existing kit by replacing it with modern stuff. Ultimately I will sell off the 9100 and all it's PODs but that's a considerable way off yet...

 

[cliff_poole]

I'm still toying with the idea of a logic analyser too, and have been watching those cheap Chinese USB ones for around the £130 mark. Just not convinced that they are worth the money though.

Those modern digital scopes look good but I don't think I could part with my old one, it has been as solid as a rock and I could probably operate it blindfolded now (actually, that wouldn't work would it !

)

 

[guddler]

That's the problem really. I love the look of the one at the top of this thread but will it be as good as it looks for the kind of things I do? No real way to know without getting hold of one from somewhere and simply trying one! Which I'm guessing isn't going to be possible.

 

[cliff_poole]

I was just having a look on YouTube, plenty of reviews of Rigol scopes but unfortunately, people only seem to demonstrate them using either the built in test point or a signal generator. It would be a lot more useful to see one hooked up to a data bus signal or something.

 

[Equites]

I'm interested in acquiring a Logic Analyser also, having seen Adrians rather smart HP setup, I was quite impressed with how you can monitor multiple activity in real time.

 

[Muppz]

bought a dual ch 50Mhz digital storage scope with usb connectivity and LCD screen. really wish i'd just bought another crt scope, i really miss the responsiveness of the crt as i'm 'dobbing' around pins.

£25 got me an old arium 4100 crt 32 ch analyser, just got to re-engineer the pod for it now, pcb is laid out now just need to get one made.
Muppz2012-08-28 22:13:42

 

[guddler]

Which one did you buy? And are they really that bad?

 

[Zabanitu]

Hi,

it depends upon what you want to do:

if you want to "sniff" a logic traffic between devices or "modern" chips then a ZEROPLUS Logic Cube would do the job and will also interpret the traffic (as i2c, 1-wire, canbus....). 200$ would be enough.

If you want to study microprocessor systems (like arcade boards) then you'll need something like old HP analyzers. Older machines can't interpret a protocol but the have lots of channels and can "read" in realtime what the CPU sees in the data bus and address bus. (they can also show you the mnemonics of the assembly operation currently running).

Those machine are quite cheap now.... but are hard to use since they don't have any modern usb support and sometimes you have to setup the logic analyzer from the front panell....

GoodLuck

 

[Muppz]

Which one did you buy? And are they really that bad?

Mines an Owon (noname brand) so it may just be rubbish but it cost best part of £300 when I bought it. Works ok but as I say it takes a noticable amount of time (10s of mS) to lock on and draw the trace at times, just slows down the 'dobbing' a bit.

The Arium does just what Zabanitu says it decodes the bus and gives a full dissasembly of what the cpu is up to, no usb as its from 1984 (the year my oldest kid was born weirdly) but it has a serial interface and can emulate roms to.

Muppz2012-08-29 17:51:20

 

[guddler]

Ah, I've seen forum threads and posts where they're moaning about the Owon, but not, it has to be said technically, more just about the PC link software and general build quality.

Really wish there was a way to try one of these modern digital scopes before you buy. I'm looking into the idea of a new modern scope and a modern LA in order to hugely streamline my kit. Not to mention sell a lot of it off.

The Rigol DS1052E seems favourite at the moment as it's only £239 (+VAT) and comes with a 3 year warranty, but it's the logic analyser side of things I'm not so sure on at the moment. I've played about with the Intronix one in demo mode and I don't think it's got anything like the buffer depth that I'm after so that brings me down to a 16 channel one (not to mention that it's pricey!).

And when we're looking at 16 channel ones it becomes economical to look at the Rigol that I first enquired over at the top as it's currently £399 + VAT and that's the scope and LA all in one unit. The downside to the all in one unit is that the workflow from PCB to PC for analysis won't be as slick but I'm not TOO worried as long as I can automate it a bit. I intend for it to fit into a bigger picture that will involve my own software (that I write) anyway.

I'm going to go and play with my 8 channel Saleae to get a feel for the sample rates, buffer depths and sample clocks that I may need. Then I'll be better armed to phone up the Rigol supplier and maybe Saleae and a few others too.

I have looked at the ZeroPlus one but I'm a little put off by the blatant Engrish software

Probably wouldn't bother me so much if I wasn't English speaking in the first place

 

[cliff_poole]

If you do decide to buy, please keep us posted. I'd be very much interested to hear your opinion.

 

[TheGecko]

You might find this interesting as well - Hacking the Rigol DS1052E

 

[guddler]

Yeah, seen that but not sure I'd want to invalidate a 3 year warranty in favour of the extra speed unless I desperately, desperately needed it (which I dont think I do)

Still weighing up my options on the logic analyser. At the moment I think the scope is a given but I'm err'ing on the side of the Saleae Logic 16 because of the flexibility on the software side. Going to have a nose at the SDKs tonight if I'm not working. Not convinced onthe lack of an external clock signal though...

 

[Muppz]

Logic16's inputs are protected against overvoltage conditions via a high DC impedance front end and ultra-low-capacitance diode clamps.

I love how technical they can make a 1M resistor and 2 1n914s per channel sound , LMAO.

 

[guddler]

Especially given you could add that to any of them!

I had a play about with the software for the ZeroPlus last night and I have to say my prior perceptions were way off! I'm VERY impressed!

Despite the Engrish nature of it, the software has some serious, serious features. Most interesting for me is the ability to filter samples, therefore saving on memory depth etc. so with the Saleae clone I was getting about 1 sample I actually wanted in every 50 or sometimes way more with the higher sample rates. With the ZeroPlus I'd only get the ones I want.

It also has an external clock input, though you do have to specify the frequency which strikes me as a little odd. I think those things together though would allow me to capture exactly what I'm interested in. If I can get away with the 32k memory variant as well then it's also very cheep at £109. I'm not keen that they charge for extra features mind but you get 10 analysers for free and it comes with an SDK so I'm guessing that'd be fine.

Only down side is I can't see the software getting much love but I guess if it's great now then how does that matter!?

Think we have a winner. Just want to do a little more with the export functionality to see if it meets my needs...

 

[guddler]

Well, I just bit the bullet and ordered a ZeroPlus Lap-C16032 analyser. At only £109 (+VAT) I think it's a bit of a bargain and I'm very impressed with the software. So, a full review later next week I guess when I have it on some real world hardware.

I'm also going to bite it and order the Rigol DS1052E scope as well. So watch this space on that one too!

Oh, before anyone thinks I'm made of money, this is all part of a bigger plan (as I've said before) that I've had in my head for a couple of years now to reduce the footprint of my kit, modernise my workflow / kit and generally shrink down. Plus I just sold 2 of my cabs

The analyser will have paid for itself inside a couple of months I should think if I can get through even just two of the PCBs that are in the 'to be fixed pile'

 

[Macro]

I always find a logic probe works for me, but then I never could multitask - not sure if I would ever use a full logic analyser (didn't use one when i had it, but that was a lot to do with space issues - scope lives in the attic for the same reason), so small footprint ones could be useful

be interested to see what you think of them