Modern Retro - a view

[LHantz]

First off, I am not a collector, although I have quite a collection of games that I have played/yet to start in the past. However, I find myself watching YT collectors and their weird attitudes and collections.
Personally, if you are collecting anything before 2003 that is PAL based, you are getting an inferior version! Games were designed to be played at 60hz not PAL 50hz, yes PAL is better, technically, but it is compromised by running slower and having borders as the Games are designed for NTSC 480 and not PAL 525 lines. The Box art is 9/10 always worse on the PAL games, with black and white manuals as opposed to being colour, finally, they need to be played RGB via SCART or Component on a proper CRT TV. I see people investing in OSCC converters for much more than a descent second hand CRT. I know CRT's are bulky but do you buy a Ferrari and drive it on knackered roads?

Paying over the odds for a totally crap game, because it is 'rare' I just don't understand. I know some people want complete collections (which is another can of Worms) But is that Gameboy version of Barbie that came out 25 years ago, going to enhance your life that much? Variants are the same.

Games that were mostly ignored back in the day are now like some kind of revelation. I remember buying an N64 for someone I worked with, it was one of those Watermelon Green ones, with a boxed copy of Zelda OOT for £16 off Ebay in the 90s, because N64's were a flop in the UK. Some shops stopped selling N64 stuff and kept selling PS1 titles instead! Now the N64 is often referred to as a 'Classic Console' how quickly people forget...
Just my view on the weird but fascinating world of modern Retro Game collecting.

 

[kuato_lives]

I make no judgement about collectors, I spend (waste) money on some very odd stuff that I really enjoy. But it is a little depressing seeing people spending more time showing off their stuff - every other image of a CRT seems to be of Castlevania - than cracking on and playing on it.

For me the biggest annoyance is this obsession with “the perfect image” and spending huge amounts of time and money on scalers when BITD you just plugged it into your 14” (if you were lucky) and didn’t even worry if it was a particularly good game or not.

 

[ExZX]

Horses for courses. Pointless overanalysing / overthinking it all as people are so different and therefore want different things based on their own perception / experiences.

 

[big10p]

Thankfully, I don't have the completist bug. I just watch with amazement from afar, at what people will pay for some things. But yeah, each to their own.

 

[Fantazia2]

Just look at Pokemon cards if you want to see people paying silly prices for a piece of card with art on it thats really only worth about 20p. Some of the original ones sell for tens of thousands and upwards.

 

[LHantz]

Horses for courses. Pointless overanalysing / overthinking it all as people are so different and therefore want different things based on their own perception / experiences.

Same thought when I try to watch 'modern' Star Wars, before it gets turned off...

 

[Vamino]

About 4 years ago I bought an OSSC for under £100 delivered from Ali express, I used it happily for many years to capture game footage/livestream on YT/Twitch etc/play games on LCD at 720p. Absolutely worth the cost. I still own it.

Earlier this year I spent about £800 (With shipping/import duty etc) on a Retrotink 4K. I sourced a cheap 1-chip Super Famicom with a quality RGB cable, RGB PC Engine and a launch Japanese Megadrive w/RGB cable, the specific version of the MD is considered to have the best sounding sound chip.

I've used the RT4K to play games on an LCD, capture game footage, livestream, archive videos and other wonderful stuff. It's an amazing piece of kit, yeah the price is high but if it's the best I don't have a problem with the cost if I think it has some value for money.

RT4K has low latency, a fantastic picture quality with great sound output. It's image quality is really noticeable when it's used on large screens. I'm borderline OCD about image and sound quality and a quality upscaler really does make it look and feel like your playing something on a CRT with quality sound.

Upscalers are a quality of life thing, and if I can afford it, I want the best possible experience for my price range. If people are happy playing at 50hz using RF on a mono 14' TV, or playing on something that's in the middle of the two extremes, then that's fine too.

I also like the monitors on my arcade machines to be calibrated as I want the best possible picture quality. I'm not too fussed by screen burn these days, but there are people who can't put up with screen burn......whilst other people are happy with blurry convergance and colour distortion cause by non magnetically shielded speakers. Personally I don't think it's strange to have high expectations from things such as image and sound quality, but I'm always open to discussion on the subject.

As for collecting, I used to own a massive collection spanning multiple formats. They took up too much space and was a bit of a burden, I said I'd never get into collecting again. So 15 or so years later, I now have a house and storage full of machines and PCB's. It seems I can't kick the collecting habit.

I don't quite agree with your car analogy....... some of the people who buy Ferrari's don't even drive them at all. I'd say a majority of the time, the satisfaction of owning such a prestigious thing usually comes from the journey it took to get to the goal, not the actual owning of the object itself.

At the end of the day it's all subjective, one mans junk is another mans treasure. And at times, the hunter gather instinct is a difficult thing to keep under control.

Happy Christmas.

 

[kingtreelo]

i am a collector, i have a decent enough collection of consoles, games and computers

i started off buying machines and consoles from my youth, then branched out to ones i had never played before, and before i knew it i was hooked on collecting stuff

i'm in a very fortunate position where all of my kids are now grown up, i earn a very good wage, and i don't care much for fancy cars or clothes, so rather than just have my money piling up in a bank, i like to spend it on things i enjoy

i also own emulation machines(Analogue Pocket, MiSTer, gaming PC) but its nice sometimes to go and sit and play on the original hardware on the OLD CRTs, or sit on my CPC464 green screen like i did back in the 80's, nice warm fuzzy feeling comes over me

i dont know why you dont understand it, you must spend your money on something, even if its designer clothes or expensive food, dont worry about what other people spend their money on or try and work it out, just be happy and spend your money on what YOU want

 

[Vamino]

i am a collector, i have a decent enough collection of consoles, games and computers

i started off buying machines and consoles from my youth, then branched out to ones i had never played before, and before i knew it i was hooked on collecting stuff

i'm in a very fortunate position where all of my kids are now grown up, i earn a very good wage, and i don't care much for fancy cars or clothes, so rather than just have my money piling up in a bank, i like to spend it on things i enjoy

i also own emulation machines(Analogue Pocket, MiSTer, gaming PC) but its nice sometimes to go and sit and play on the original hardware on the OLD CRTs, or sit on my CPC464 green screen like i did back in the 80's, nice warm fuzzy feeling comes over me

i dont know why you dont understand it, you must spend your money on something, even if its designer clothes or expensive food, dont worry about what other people spend their money on or try and work it out, just be happy and spend your money on what YOU want

I think the OP's rant is from the perspective of being a collector himself.

He has a large collection of games but is not a collector, and is drawn towards watching YT videos showing what other collectors are doing lol.

Imagine if you was a kid, just about to play a videogame for the first time, a retro game called Barbie. Using a PAL SNES with a Super Gameboy.

You are eyeing up the inferior box adorned with inferior artwork, flicking through those inferior pages of the inferior black and white manual before playing this so called terrible game, using an inferior 50hz console connected to a LCD TV which is being improperly used as it's displaying an image using an upscaler.

Does anyone think the kid is thinking, man this a terrible experience?

Some of the games I played and enjoyed back in the day are now considered crap, Top Gun on NES being one of them. I had no choice but to enjoy it as I paid £30 for it!

No one gave a flying crap about box art back in the day, it's only when you are a collector, and have something to compare that you think of such things.

I had a Mattel NES with Super Mario Bros at launch, I knew it played slower than the Arcade version that was in the chip shop. But, I was playing Super Mario Bros Arcade version at home. It's only when I had a choice to buy PAL or NTSC that I chose NTSC. Not all TV's back in the day could display RGB scart in colour, so it was play using PAL hardware or nothing at all.

Rereading the OP's rant, I can't agree with a lot of the points being made. But, all opinions are from different perspectives so it's all good.

Happy Christmas.

 

[Del Griffith]

I was fully aware of the 50/60hz thing as a kid, And the poor artwork for uk/us games. Always went out of my way to get the Jap versions. It was generally because the artwork looked so much cooler but sometimes due to the censorship. It was a constant topic in most gaming mags 😂

 

[LHantz]

Personally if I was so passionate about Retro collecting then I would want the best experience. PAL stuff was the only option to most back in the day, but now, and with greater knowledge available, people seem to still collect PAL stuff, which is something I would not do. I guess they are looking at them through a collectors eyes and not with the intention of ever playing them to completion, which is where the difference exists.

 

[Vamino]

I was fully aware of the 50/60hz thing as a kid, And the poor artwork for uk/us games. Always went out of my way to get the Jap versions. It was generally because the artwork looked so much cooler but sometimes due to the censorship. It was a constant topic in most gaming mags 😂

Yeah I get that mate.

But when/where did you learn about 50/60hz?
Was it before you started playing computers/consoles? Or was it afterwards where you read about it in a magazine?.

My point is that a kid playing a game on PAL console for the first time isn't going to be bothered about PAL/NTSC/Box art.....collectors and gamers on the otherhand will be.

I had a Jp SFC back in the day, and reeled at PAL 50hz SFII.

N64 was the last PAL console that I played at 50hz, didn't really bother me as the games I played were not arcade conversions..

I had PAL PS1, 60hz options.

I had Jp Sega Saturn.

Dreamcast had 60hz options in most games, as did Xbox.

Xbox360 was the last PAL console I bought, and Jp PS3 was the last console I bought.

PC gaming ever since.

 

[Ste72]

The 50/60hz issue has always been my only 'obsession' on CRT. Amiga copies sometimes could switch and all through SNES, PlayStations, Dreamcast etc I would only tolerate 60hz. Not an issue on modern consoles.

 

[Vamino]

Personally if I was so passionate about Retro collecting then I would want the best experience. PAL stuff was the only option to most back in the day, but now, and with greater knowledge available, people seem to still collect PAL stuff, which is something I would not do. I guess they are looking at them through a collectors eyes and not with the intention of ever playing them to completion, which is where the difference exists.

But what about collecting things from your childhood mate?

If you had a PAL console, then surely the artwork and stuff will be more nostalgic?
The game will play as they remembered, rather than being too fast. (ie: at It's original speed)

As a gamer myself, I want any game I play to be at the original intended speed and image. After PS1 the 50hz/60hz issue became less of a problem imo. Some SNES games were optimised for PAL, which was a good thing.

 

[LHantz]

In 1990 I swapped an Amiga 500 for an Import Megadrive and I never went back. 50/60hz differences were rarely mentioned in Mags, I didn't know it was a thing until I played Revenge of Shinobi on a PAL MD was a different game, and not in a good way!

 

[LHantz]

Some PS1 games had 60hz patches on them, usually pirated ones (not mine ahem!)

 

[Vamino]

Some PS1 games had 60hz patches on them, usually pirated ones (not mine ahem!)

Didn't disc swapping original NTSC games on a PAL console make them play at 60hz?

 

[Vamino]

And by disc swapping, I mean putting in a PAL CD, then swapping in a NTSC game to bypass region protection.

Pretty sure we did that with Resident Evil and it played in 60hz.

 

[Del Griffith]

Yeah I get that mate.

But when/where did you learn about 50/60hz?
Was it before you started playing computers/consoles? Or was it afterwards where you read about it in a magazine?.

My point is that a kid playing a game on PAL console for the first time isn't going to be bothered about PAL/NTSC/Box art.....collectors and gamers on the otherhand will be.

I had a Jp SFC back in the day, and reeled at PAL 50hz SFII.

N64 was the last PAL console that I played at 50hz, didn't really bother me as the games I played were not arcade conversions..

I had PAL PS1, 60hz options.

I had Jp Sega Saturn.

Dreamcast had 60hz options in most games, as did Xbox.

Xbox360 was the last PAL console I bought, and Jp PS3 was the last console I bought.

PC gaming ever since.

First heard about 50/60hz when the rich kids at school had super famicoms a couple of years before we got them. I'd never even heard of them at that point but they used to hammer down how inferior the PAL one would be when it arrived. It didn't help me though as my parents believed in making shit last years (Fookin Hitachi TV's lasted forever) They wouldn't upgrade no matter how much i begged so i ended up with a 50hz one with a convertor for import and it bothered me from day 1. My cousins had a US one and i used to play with them and then go home and play mine. Hated it apart from Mario Kart and Super Tennis which were optimised for 50hz.

On the other hand though it was only in the console era it bothered me so i partially agree with you. My C+4, Speccy and ST days i had no clue about 50/60hz All i cared about was becoming a master at Poker 😂 Hollywood Poker and Delux. Never got my head around centrefold squares so those girls were a mystery forever

 

[LHantz]

There were so many hurdles with true 60hz as well. SCART cables that were wired to Composite, and needed Caps for brightness/Colour bleed, and only a tiny percentage of TVs out in the early 90s could convert NTSC colour. I gamed on a Philips CM833, which also outputted in full Stereo. Yeah PAL was a lot less faffing !