Operation Wolf Sound Issues

[Unit504]

Rav, thank you so much for the offer and yes please!!!

If i can help you out anytime just let me know! I have sent you a PM.

Guys, I've got a untested op wolf (at least i think it is) sitting here in the garage. If you wanna paypal me the P&P you can have it and see if the sound board works. I know its best to continue fixing but nice to have a spare pcb set

 

[Unit504]

yup yup ill have it!!

paulcan69 thanks for that and all the help/effort you have put in, this board will live again!!

Yes please Rav, I'm sure Unit504 will have it, please hold it for him/us.

Thanks again you arcade legend you!!

I will still continue to fix it as I'm loving the learning.

Ta Rav, god bless you!

Si if your reading this that's the most generous offer your ever gonna get Paypal the man now!!!!

 

[trm]

Right, back to fixing.

At some point I need you to go back to my earlier post which specs out what you should do on each pin, but for the time being can you get the game into test mode (don't know which DIP as I was using MAME) and then do the sound test?

You can see the current sound code at the bottom of the test mode screen. You advance the code by pulling the trigger, decrement the code by pushing rocket and trigger playback by pushing P1 Start.

The first few sounds are OPL synth tunes so should come through fine. You will have to wait for the last one to finish playing before moving to the samples below.

Play each of these sounds and tell me if any of them sound like proper samples you expect to see in the game. I didn't list the sample effect (doh) and after having paged through about 70 playbacks I really can't be arsed going through it all again

The following sound codes should be samples:

5, 0D, 15, 1B, 1C, 1C, 1D, 1E, 1F, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 (possibly), 38 (possibly), 39 (possibly), 3A (possibly), 3B, 3C, 3D, 3E, 3F, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 (possibly), 46, 47, 48, 49, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D, 4E, 4F, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54

Any before or after (the sounds stop around 59) those codes should just be OPL synth tunes. I need to know if any single one of those sound codes actually plays back as it should. Some of the gun fx are close to white noise so you may want to fire up MAME for comparison.

Alternatively you could set a camera on a tripod (not shake-a-matic-o-vision) as I need to see the sound codes to compare to the noise I hear.

This will tell us whether any sample playback is working and will help narrow down which bit of the awfully grody schematic I have to focus on.

As for my earlier post about the pins in the YM3012, you may want to follow my instructions on probing the IC and recording the logic probe state whilst having page one of the schematics open. It's IC24 in the top right corner that we're interested in as this should be converting the samples back to crunchy audio

Let me know how it goes and I'll come up with the next step. I'll digest the schems over the weekend amongst other stuff.

cheers

tim

 

[paulcan69]

Hi Tim,

Right as per the last post, to record a vid is going to take ages,

I'll do it if you really want, just I will need to clear down the other half's camera card so I can fit the video on as it will end up being about 3 gig due to the quality her camera shoots and the length of time it takes to run all the tests so instead here's mame compared to the real board!

5 OK

0D BAD

15 OK

1B BAD

THEN.... BAD BAD BAD ALL THE WAY TO THE END AT NO. 54

No. 55 was a tune which played fine so out of all of those only 2 worked

any ideas??

Thanks

 

[trm]

OK. Basically what you've proven is that the sample playback is screwed. I'm knackered now but will have a look through the schematics tomorrow to see what IC pathway we need to test.

No need for the vids - it was mainly because the MAME sound emu is marked as not 100% so I didn't want to send you on a wild goose chase if the samples didn't correspond to the sound IDs I listed.

 

[paulcan69]

Ta bud, funny you say that some of the tunes, fx that did work mame was slightly off on pitch for some of them, or the fx or music was 98% the same but the real board sounded slightly better like mame had tried to copy it as best as they could, maybe some hacks and work arounds of the original hardware which they can't quite 100% emulate.

Well we have 3 bad sound boards for this now, looks like these are starting to die, 2 of the cpu boards are good, one is dead (maybe simple like new z80 and all good?)

Be nice to sort out why these die or start to die.

Si's original board (this one we are trying to fix) has all music and most fx just no samples.

The other two just have no sound at all - silence!!

Ta for your time and thoughts.

Laters

 

[trm]

I'd wonder whether all these sound boards are really dead/dying or whether you have a fault with the mainboard. I can't see anything on the (decidedly) sketchy schems that makes me think "always fails" with the exception of op-amps, which often go pop eventually. Will be back for a proper reply this eve, but I'd suspect the op-amps on the two silent boards if you've got z80 activity. A crystal earpiece as cliffpoole suggest in Bensonrads thread would be a good buy too.

 

[paulcan69]

I did start thinking about that last night as you say maybe the main board causes the issue??

There are a few customs on there.

Maybe as you say just to rule it out....check the z80 on the "bad" soundboards then replace the op amps just to see if they are the same!?

Crystal earpiece, ok will read Bensonrads post.

Thanks Tim.

 

[Ravage]

Well guys...

Not wanting to muddy the waters any more than they might be already - its very important to at least try and work out whats going on and attempt a fix.

Did the pcb I sent have any joy or are we still talking the first pcb set?

If you've tried the set I set (trully untested) and still problems...

I have this:

http://www.retrokade.com/sales/?gallery=107&page=1

And thats after a 30 second swipe with a brush as it was beyond filthy!!!! Infact, I ***think*** this is op wolf as I ***think*** I can make out a _L_F from the dot matrix printed label (god bless the 80s - having said that if it was permenant ink god knows what sh*t my body would have from 80's printers gunk LOL)

But even still this is another dug up from the annals - Ive no idea where I got it form - I kinda figure that if an Op kept the whole board with psu, transformer etc then surely it was from a cab with a gun or monitor fault!!!

Its way way WAY too heavy to ship as is - Perhaps I should a) knock up a quick op wolf->jamma adapter and we see what happens or b) it becomes another part of this thread!

But going by the dust and fading (and years of neglect living under a box'o'crap I had at my unit I wont lie) that it might be toast before we start... But... Something else to try after the last pcb I sent is tried???
Ravage2011-02-24 00:36:57

 

[paulcan69]

Hello Rav,

Yes mate I'm afraid that Si plugged your one into his op wolf cab and it worked fine apart from no sound at all.

Si already had a spare board set which was totally dead, so before we got yours we swapped just the sound board over and that booted and ran but no sound at all.

So...In total:-

1 running cpu board with a good sound board apart from all the samples

1 dead cpu board with what seems to be a dead sound board (no sound at all)

and your old one which has a running cpu board but again a dead sound board (no sound at all)

Yes I'm sure Si would like it anyway, god knows how to get it here, we could collect at some point I'm sure, if you do another meet "I'm down like Charlie Brown" wouldn't miss it for the world + I'd get a hotel down there this time.

If not Si likes a road trip he might well want to come and get it anyway.

I want an op wolf at some point, If Si ever sells his I asked him to think of me, or I may look for one later in the year so having a few boards can only help!

Yes I'm well up for trying to fix or at least fault find this, although you all will have to guide me in LOL!

I won't give up, but I'm afraid I will need an idiots guide.

A Fluke is next on my list, and I need to get a crystal ear piece.

Anyones thoughts are warmly received.

Ta

paulcan692011-02-24 08:26:02

 

[paulcan69]

B.T.W the picture doesn't load at my work, I've stared at this op wolf board so much I'm sure I could I.D it even with 3 inches of muck all over it and sand and vaseline smeared in my eyes.

paulcan692011-02-24 08:33:32

 

[Ravage]

Its at the bottom fo the list of stuff - really really should do something about that sh*tty page

 

[paulcan69]

No I think it's my security at work, I shall have a look tonight, I don't think it's your page causing it.

If in your last post is the pic, then I still can't see it, just a red cross!!

Damn work security, I could get around it, but in these crazy times value my job

Ta bud,

Paul.

 

[Alpha1]

It's an Op Wolf shelf - I used to have an Op wolf.

Besides I recognise the pcb.

 

[trm]

As always I don't advocate shotgunning so I wouldn't go replacing the opamps just yet

Given that you've got a mainboard which is at least working enough to trigger synth tunes and play the game, I think that's a good baseline from which to test the other boards so if you can number the sound boards you have and list their behaviour (e.g. #1 utterly dead, #2 tunes but squeaks instead of samples...) then we can pick the best one to start on (probably an utterly dead one or an almost worker) and work through it logically.

It should be pretty quick progress - there's not much that can be wrong on the one which plays tunes but not samples and the dead one will hopefully turn out to be very dead (i.e. no Z80 activity) or plenty of activity right up to the amplification.

This one will end up a worker with a couple of spare working sound boards - have faith young Jedi

. I'll post the action plan tonight.

 

[paulcan69]

Thanks all!

 

[trm]

OK. Which board are we going to work on? If you give me an idea of what they do/don't do then we can pick something to start with.

I'd advise picking one of the following:

1 - Utterly dead board. No Z80 activity. Reason being that if it's that dead, there's some pretty simple basic troubleshooting steps we can run through that may bring it back to life and if the CPU section (CPU, power on reset circuit, supporting circuitry) is dead then it may have been shelved prior to the op-amps wearing out as they seem to do.

2 - Something akin to the original board where you have most of the sound playback working bar the samples. This one may be easier to fix as we know 90% of the circuit is working but I'm not sure if you've got the right tools to determine whether the analogue-to-digital section is ok.

Do you have your scope working yet? If so I'd say we go for option 2 as there are only a few parts that we need to look at.

Let me know which you've got and whether you have a scope and we'll get cracking. I should be able to get some free time this w/e to post some troubleshooting steps.

cheers

tim

 

[paulcan69]

Ok, I like the sound of all this, I'm excited!!

I guess it's going to be option 1, as I do not have a scope yet only a video probe! -

I know sorry...but USA holiday is very very soon now and I'm saving as much as possible!

Trouble is some of the wires are soldered on, so I will need to spend about 20 mins swapping the jamma adaptor over, there are loads of power wires on this, I used two proper connectors for the two edge connectors but there are maybe 20 metal pins which need hooking up for it to run, and I have no plugs for these, so as a temp I soldered them to the metal pins.

These go to both sound and main pcb and cross over so I can't just swap sound boards quickly without some soldering.

I have at mine:-

PCB set 1:- good condition setup, game runs and has sound but no samples as you know, Jamma harness is wired to this board currently.

PCB set 2:- Looks dirty and manky, very dusty and totally dead, nothing when Si plugged it into his cab. I have this board set at mine, looks a bit sh*tty may have loads of faults? also no connector on it at the mo so I will have to swap it if we choose to work on this one. Si did swap the sound board with the boardset above and the main board booted and played but had no sound at all!.

I don't have at mine:-

PCB set 3:- (Rav's old pcb set I haven't seen it yet as Rav posted it straight to Si's house)

Works apart from no sound at all, however this pcb set is at Si's house in his cab (30 mins away from me) and has no jamma adaptor on it.

The jamma connector swapping is not a problem, I would just like to swap it over once then concerntrate on that board so I guess it's decide time!!

My guess would be....Use pcb set 1 (working main board) with sound board from pcb set 2 (no sound at all) and try to see why the sound board is dead (Z80 fault route is that right?)

PCB set 3 I'm sure Si will let me grab it if we need it?

So do you agree with that Tim?

Unless we can use my video probe to fix the board with no samples? (PCB set 1)

(I doubt it LOL!)

Your call Sir?

Like I say moving the jamma adaptor isn't a problem just don't want to move it from board to board 10 times if I don't have to LOL!

Thanks for your reply buddy.

 

[trm]

I reckon we go with board 1 (sound but no samples) if it's already soldered in and saves you some grief. Plus we know a big chunk of it is working and the board is trying to play samples, so that's not a bad start.

The video probe will be useful for some stages of this as we need to check that you're getting some repetitive signals and that'll register as a specific pattern on the screen. I'll be back later after spending some time refreshing on the schematic to list some test points.

Also, it probably makes sense to ensure your video probe is working as expected so some of the first things will be to vprobe a CPU clock line and some of the address/data bus and post pictures so I can confirm it's working as expected.

More info soon (I didn't notice that you'd replied which is why this is 5 days after my previous post

)

 

[paulcan69]

Thanks buddy any pointers would be very cool thanks,