Opinion Divider!

[jerryspaghetti]

I've been on both sides of this situation but wanted to gauge other's thoughts....

You sell a PCB/Chassis/i/o board etc. online to an unknown buyer (i.e not a trusted buyer you've dealt with before etc.). You 100% test and confirm its definitely all good then package very well and send it off. A week later the buyer contacts you and says it's not working and you offer as much advice as you can to problem solve but ultimately they say it isn't working and want a refund.

You basically have 1 of 3 things happening here. Either it was damaged in post/randomly died, The buyer has incorrectly installed it and knackered it or they had a broken one and just want to keep the good one for free.

Fundamentally, you have no real obligation to refund but you have to decide which of the 3 scenarios are most likely. In my experience with unknown buyers it's usually the 3rd scenario.

On the flip side, you are the buyer and you think the seller has sent you a dud intentionally or it's been knackered/randomly died in the post.

What are peoples opinions on this crappy situation?

 

[Chopper79]

I will never post a PCB unless, to a trusted forum member, as to many on ebay swapping parts over. Have you got detailed pics of the chassis, so you can compare to one returned, if that happens?

The problem is, ebay always favour the buyer, and will force a refund back to them. I've had it happen to me.

 

[Stokers]

It's a difficult one, when I bought my first cab the seller was upfront and provided proof it was working, but said he wouldn't be held responsible for issues during transit or whatever. Presumably he had faced the situation you describe above several times, personally I didn't mind as you have to accept some element of risk. At least I had a clear expectation, however if the cab had turned up to be different to what was pictured or more worn out etc - I would have raised it for sure.

More generally I try to deal with trusted forum members either that I 'know' or have decent feedback. If there is a problem it will be easier to resolve and wont require all paperwork eBay demand. I was quite suprised recently to find sellers not accepting PayPal goods and services, but i'm starting to understand it now - buyers can be just as unscrupulous as sellers - so everyone needs to look out for themselves.

 

[TheDaddy]

Tricky , Yes very. You either get a good buyer or bad buyer , Good seller or bad seller.

Issues I have are :-

1) EBAY :- (As already said) Item returned with parts missing or replaced with faulty part.

2) EBAY :- Decide they no longer want it and return as faulty when there is fack all wrong with it.

3) EBAY :- Returned smashed to pieces

4) EBAY :- Item never arrived !

No real solution but I sell everything on ebay as FAULTY , SPARES OR REPIR ONLY but state they are fully working if they are. I state in the listing that there is no guarantee. I also say if they want to collect and see it fully working then they are welcome. I ensure that I now get adequate postage with insurance & proof of delivery. I have had no issues but again they can also claim back through paypal and say it never worked , Paypal dont listen and still refund (I have never had this happen).

As far as on here is concerned I tend to only sell to people I know and trust. I dont realy sell much but I always take vids ect of it all working and people who know me or dealt with me know I will do what I can if there is any issues. Never realy had any issues as such.

I do buy from people on here as far as PCB's go and I purchase as is , Think I have only ever requested to return one PCB and the seller was a valued member and there was no issues with refund.

Selling and buying is a gamble , I purchased 100's of pouds worth of PCB's 4 months ago and still waiting for them to turn up , Didnt do paypal (I know !!!!) and I have no come backs as such. Not on here or ebay. I have some basic details. At the end of the day sometimes you just have to throw the dice i suppose and be able too , or happy , with losing some pennies.

Dave.

P.S One thing that gets my Goat is bad communication !!!!! People not answer phone , emails ect. That happens on ebay & on here ! lol

 

[thegreathopper]

If your experience is number 3 you should never to sell to an unknown buyer, my experience is number 1 but perhaps I am gullible! I would and have refund if reported not working on arrival.

But… I have been around game forums for 20 years so know the good guys and try not to deal with people with no history.

 

[jimmerd]

Most collectors understand very occasionally things break and nobody is at fault.

I'd offer to let them keep it and issue half the price back as as a refund.

Otherwise let them return the items and confirm if they still work and check if it was a setup error.

Always leave clear feedback, that way if a buyer or seller is frequently encountering such issues it becomes more apparent to others.

In future you may want to only list your older items as 'untested'. However make it clear the current working status of the item (eg unknown/good/bad) and include pictures/video and offer collection in person for anybody who wishes to come and check it out.

I find taking a video which includes the item working and showing the conversation on my phone with the buyer is a good way of proving the video is upto date.

 

[Phils Arcade]

This type of thing use to happen to me years ago when I fixed boards for others. People would swap out chips and return as faulty. I eventually used a black light pen, marked the expensive or hard to get ones and took a photo. When a board was returned, I used the light to check if any, or sometime ALL, the chips has been swapped. Send them the photos to compare.

Of course they always denied it anyway. Some just realised they'd been had and never got back to me, leaving me still with the board.

 

[Flyback2021]

Online selling can be hard sometimes.To my collecting detriment I have not sold that many arcade related things (probably need to start tho and have thought about these various scenario’s happening.)
As other have said regarding eBay I would likely sell as parts with no returns even if working in my possession.
I have certainly sold a few thousand vinyl over the years and very rarely have a comeback however in the rare situation I do - offer a full refund on the return.
I find fishing for discounts/partial refund is more of a thing now so I don’t give in and ask for item back - rarely do they send back…I build a database of people I have good dealings with and those I don’t.
we have brought and sold between each other and your are on my nice list 😉

 

[kingtreelo]

does/did this really happen that much in this business?

are there that many shady fuckers doing this kind of thing?

ive been buying/selling on ebay for over 20 years and have never had a single thing sent back or messaged as faulty, so is this a problem with this industry rather than a general seller/buyer issue?

 

[John Bennett]

Once upon a time boards were tenners, not hundreds and they were 10-20 years old, not 30-40. Plus there were loads more for sale.

Now most things are many times the price and much older.

So the chances of something randomly croaking it have gone up and the financial hit if you wind up with scrap is much more painful.

But even if expectations have gone up, it's still a used circuit board, out of it's life expectancy, sold by hobbyists, so doing returns is really going above and beyond. Or it would be if you weren't forced to refund via some selling methods.

 

[agent4125]

I don't think I'd ever sell a PCB via eBay. All the ones I've sold have been via ukvac, and lately I take videos with personal commentary so the buyers know it's real/current. I also advise the buyer that once it leaves me it's 100% their risk and I won't offer refunds/returns. I suggest they go check my ukvac profile/feedback too. This has worked well every time and to date I've not had a dissatisfied or scammy buyer.

 

[jerryspaghetti]

All good points, its actually just a theoretical based on a couple of experiences ive had on ebay and facebook marketplace, never on here to be fair.

I think it's just a case of only dealing with trusted people if you can wait to sell/buy things. That's why I always list my own collection on here at a lower price than i'd get on ebay/elsewhere.

 

[Lardonate]

I bought a pair of Naomi PCBs off ebay last year, one of which wasn't working, seller was nice and chatty, said they'd sort it out, just send me another one. Weeks passed with nothing turning up, they stopped responding to messages, by which point it had passed the time in which ebay would deal with it. I went down the bank and they coudn't do anything as i'd paid on my debit card and not a credit card.

Lesson learned I guess. I was quite angry for a good few weeks about it, but I'm over it now. First time having an experience like that so overall I've done pretty good.

It's tough cos they might well have assumed I was being the dodgy party and just trying to get a freebie.

Anyone want a dead Naomi? (I haven't gotten round to seeing if it's fixable but I guess it might be useful for spares one day I dunno.)

 

[TheDaddy]

All good points, its actually just a theoretical based on a couple of experiences ive had on ebay and facebook marketplace, never on here to be fair.

I think it's just a case of only dealing with trusted people if you can wait to sell/buy things. That's why I always list my own collection on here at a lower price than i'd get on ebay/elsewhere.

You could send me some free pcbs and I could leave you some super feedback

Dave.

 

[69er]

Save doing daddy said.. copy as a quote

EXACTLY AS DADDY SAYS and partly others
Not had many issues myself not bought any used pcbs for 20 years or so and before that bought only brand new or what some people may call bootleg? Fully Licenced pcbs from uk distributors from mid 80s -2000 but did acquire during and before that maybe a couple of hundred cabinets with unknown history tho 50% were dedicated anyway less chance of being rogue
Great points of view above … I am an eBay seller and have had one issue where a sega rally pcb was described as faulty on arrival at a motor garage not too far away
Caught him out when I visited him in person to find his game working ok with my marked pcb in it . Previously via eBay he asked & agreed for half money back …… this was wholly due to him trying to use a bid “sniper” not realising another bidder also used a sniper and both had put in well over value limits. Overpaid by far.. very funny in my opinion . He did not know from my id who I was as he had been to my coastal depot before and I delivered a pooltable to him at his address a cafe connected to a petrol garage. He boasted his machine had a board in it he got off eBay for half what he might have paid? Big mistake!!!

Outcome he apologised for trying it on but lost a good supplier/ repairer to his long term cost asi never traded with him again .
Plus I was more than happy at getting half what he bidded!!!!
It’s bit like buying or selling a used car or similar item buyer beware and seller make sure you state non return as- is terms

And just to be extra nice I always offer collect in person and only pay cash on collect see before you pay … if fully working .. or no warranty if sold spares or repair as is faulty….tho eBay do try to make buyers pay immediately by preventing contact details in case they miss out on commission fees .

My ads state pay cash in person or PayPal/eBay pay happy with both and I don’t avoid fees.buyers should say ‘I will send payment shortly ‘ instead of paying via eBay pay … and communicate better.

 

[benimaru7]

I sold a few NEO GEO AES and MVS carts through eBay and most people are really good. Sometimes things get damaged in transit which is annoying having to go through hoops to prove value and get money back. But if its tracked, proved delivered, and proved working at your end what can you do? Only other thing is perhaps use an invisible marker/security tamper seal?

 

[jerryspaghetti]

I resorted to tamper stickers after I got a PS1 returned with a faulty laser. Had been checked meticulously before I sent it. Opened it up to find the guy had obviously swapped out a dodgy laser with the working one I sent it with. Tell tale sign? He had forgotten to plug the laser back in!

 

[benimaru7]

What!!? The lengths people will go to amazes me!
I'm on the fence about using eBay going forward since I learned about the tax implications, and the halving of Capital Gains every year!

With the prices of games only going up it doesn't take long to exceed the £1K allowance...

 

[Chihiro]

I sold a watch on eBay some year's back & the buyer told me that seconds hand wasn't working but his mate repairs them & if I gave him a partial refund (£10 iirc) he would say no more about it I think I got diddled

I've heard of similar stories in recent years so maybe its a thing.

When I sell my rc hobby stuff on eBay I sometimes have this in the small print "No returns due to the nature of the hobby as I don't know what you are plugging this into".