Space Harrier /OutRun DX Motor OpenBoard Project
- Thread starter NaokiS
- Start date
superb
John Bennett
Senior Member
Oddest motor controller I've ever worked on
Next update is hopefully the 'ready to go' update (later this month, I hope - got holidays n' stuff).
John Bennett
Senior Member
NaokiS said:
Sort of...
The circuit turns AC into DC, so you need a motor with a rating around that of the AC.
So as I was testing with just 12V AC, I used a 12V DC motor.
That's enough to test the control works as it basically puts a proportion of 12V on the motor in either direction.
What hasn't been tested is what happens at 80V and with an appropriate motor with an appropriate load (to make some decent current flow). The control is the exactly the same, it's just more about how the triac circuit behaves (does it overheat, not switch properly etc?). So I'd need an 80V transformer to represent the real cabinet and a suitable motor.
So rather than faff with that (as we know the motor control works), I'm going to stick 120V on it and use a light bulb to see if it behaves OK with a bit more juice. Then we'll try it on a real cabinet.
RetroClinic
User
This is looking great! I'm about to rebuild and convert an Outrun Drive board into a Harrier board, but I've got a couple of things from reading this thread to ask about.
The PLDs for Out Run and SH have different Sega part numbers, also there is a 315-5160 and 5160A on the Harrier board. The dumps that I've found seem to be the same checksum, but I seem to recall dumping them from a drive board I did a while back, and they were different. I can't for the life of me now find the dumps I did, it may have been on the old laptop that gave up the ghost a few years ago. Also, one could have been faulty I suppose?
The diodes next to the bridge rectifiers - what ones are you using? Do they have to be anything specific, or will anything that does decent current and reverse voltage do the trick?
The heatsink that you've got fitted, have you got a part number / supplier for it? Does it fit the same footprint as the original, as I've not been able to find a near enough match.
Thanks, Mark.
The PLDs for Out Run and SH have different Sega part numbers, also there is a 315-5160 and 5160A on the Harrier board. The dumps that I've found seem to be the same checksum, but I seem to recall dumping them from a drive board I did a while back, and they were different. I can't for the life of me now find the dumps I did, it may have been on the old laptop that gave up the ghost a few years ago. Also, one could have been faulty I suppose?
The diodes next to the bridge rectifiers - what ones are you using? Do they have to be anything specific, or will anything that does decent current and reverse voltage do the trick?
The heatsink that you've got fitted, have you got a part number / supplier for it? Does it fit the same footprint as the original, as I've not been able to find a near enough match.
Thanks, Mark.
John Bennett
Senior Member
Hi,
I've not had any details on different PALs. I have wondered what it might mean - I did wonder if there were 60Hz variants vs 50Hz, but the system should be universal (I will try 60Hz via a sig gen).
The same code works in both PAL locations, but only one needs to handle the mains-sync functionality - maybe they did a version with that stripped-out.
Either way, I think I know enough to solve any unforeseen PAL related issues
. I'll stick up the refactored PAL soon, as we're about ready to go with 'production' and it seems to work.
Similarly, I haven't yet put up a Bill-of-Materials, but will do soon.
There's 3 single diodes. I put the same in for all of them, can't quite remember the reasoning now - it's 1N5404G.
D3 is there as a mains-sense diode - it acts as a half-wave rectified mains, so the logic can tell a positive from negative mains cycle. The switching rate is 50Hz and current isn't much - 80V and a 330R resistor is a tiny current.
The other two D1 and D2 are to handle any circulating currents from the inductance of the motor brake. It shouldn't be much and it's only randomly operated, so I'd imagine you could get away with anything.
The heatsink is
WA-T247-101E
I picked it as it was the only thing that looked close to the original (and it's a TO-247 heatsink on a TO-220 device). I think the holes are close, but I've never checked (whilst I planned for all original PCB components to work on our new PCB, I didn't factor the heatsinks as being transferrable).
As said, I'll stick up everything soon (and answer any questions in the meantime
)John Bennett2018-08-04 21:37:05
I've not had any details on different PALs. I have wondered what it might mean - I did wonder if there were 60Hz variants vs 50Hz, but the system should be universal (I will try 60Hz via a sig gen).
The same code works in both PAL locations, but only one needs to handle the mains-sync functionality - maybe they did a version with that stripped-out.
Either way, I think I know enough to solve any unforeseen PAL related issues
Similarly, I haven't yet put up a Bill-of-Materials, but will do soon.
There's 3 single diodes. I put the same in for all of them, can't quite remember the reasoning now - it's 1N5404G.
D3 is there as a mains-sense diode - it acts as a half-wave rectified mains, so the logic can tell a positive from negative mains cycle. The switching rate is 50Hz and current isn't much - 80V and a 330R resistor is a tiny current.
The other two D1 and D2 are to handle any circulating currents from the inductance of the motor brake. It shouldn't be much and it's only randomly operated, so I'd imagine you could get away with anything.
The heatsink is
WA-T247-101E
I picked it as it was the only thing that looked close to the original (and it's a TO-247 heatsink on a TO-220 device). I think the holes are close, but I've never checked (whilst I planned for all original PCB components to work on our new PCB, I didn't factor the heatsinks as being transferrable).
As said, I'll stick up everything soon (and answer any questions in the meantime
RetroClinic
User
Great! Thanks for the heatsink info, I'll get some of those ordered, along with some 1N5404. I'll look again at the PLDs and see if I can find the other dumps I did.
Regards, Mark.
Regards, Mark.
John Bennett
Senior Member
No bother. Like I said, I don't know if the new heatsink fits the old boards, but there's good dimensions on the datasheet.
If you do get a dump of the 'A' variant, then that's great - we'll pick it apart on this thread and see what differences there are.
If you do get a dump of the 'A' variant, then that's great - we'll pick it apart on this thread and see what differences there are.
RetroClinic
User
Hi.
Tried those heatsinks - PUURFECTION! the spacing is spot on, thanks for that. I tried to upload the pictures here but despite them being under the 2MB limit, I still get some "Error inserting Image" message and it won't do it, so here's a link to the flickr album of the whole board rebuilt.
http://flic.kr/s/aHsmqoQME2
Thanks, Mark.
Tried those heatsinks - PUURFECTION! the spacing is spot on, thanks for that. I tried to upload the pictures here but despite them being under the 2MB limit, I still get some "Error inserting Image" message and it won't do it, so here's a link to the flickr album of the whole board rebuilt.
http://flic.kr/s/aHsmqoQME2
Thanks, Mark.
John Bennett
Senior Member
Looks great. I did spend ages trying to find a heatsink that looked even remotely close to the original, so rather amazing that the only one I did find fitted that well - it's not even intended for a TO220
Not much to report on the new board this week - had too much else on. Although I've just ordered 10 of the white connectors (to get around import charges) - about £5 each. Bloody hope they're close to the originals. Still want to have this 'ready to go before the end of the month though.
Not much to report on the new board this week - had too much else on. Although I've just ordered 10 of the white connectors (to get around import charges) - about £5 each. Bloody hope they're close to the originals. Still want to have this 'ready to go before the end of the month though.
RetroClinic
User
Hi.
Ok, I've redumped the 315-5160 and 5160A that I found on a board. I've also dumped what I believe to be the 315-5307. This is the PLD from the After burner drive board. The label on the original chip was illegible, but looking at photos on the web, this seems to be the part number?
https://www.ukvac.com/forum/data/uploads/1743/Drive_Board_PLS153_JEDECs.zip
Hopefully, you guys will be able to tell if the A and 5307 version look correct? I know the 5160 is ok, as the checksum matches what's already out there.
Thanks, Mark.
Ok, I've redumped the 315-5160 and 5160A that I found on a board. I've also dumped what I believe to be the 315-5307. This is the PLD from the After burner drive board. The label on the original chip was illegible, but looking at photos on the web, this seems to be the part number?
https://www.ukvac.com/forum/data/uploads/1743/Drive_Board_PLS153_JEDECs.zip
Hopefully, you guys will be able to tell if the A and 5307 version look correct? I know the 5160 is ok, as the checksum matches what's already out there.
Thanks, Mark.
John Bennett
Senior Member
That’s fantastic - thank you!
Im in a caravan this week, so internet is somewhat limited, but I managed to get the files, convert them and take a look.
The ‘A’ version IS different
But... all it seems to be is that it has a slightly different on-time for the motor triac. I think the end result is that either will work, but in some cases the motor needs to be a bit slower (I think), so they fit an A chip. Were talking a tiny fraction slower (less than 1/6th reduction).
Where is the ‘A’ found?
In the ideal world, I’d make the GAL multi-purpose to do both via jumpers, but will need to think (product terms, pin changes, effort etc). Might just be we make both available at order time (for those who want it 100% accurate).
I will put up the GAL rewrites I did, once we start ‘production’. It’s just pinout changing really, but want to be sure it’s 100%.
Oh and afterburner is quite different. Looks like the same sort of mains sync stuff, but I think one PAL must do 2 triacs? Would that sound right? I don’t know much about the boards and havent seen a schematic.
Im in a caravan this week, so internet is somewhat limited, but I managed to get the files, convert them and take a look.
The ‘A’ version IS different
But... all it seems to be is that it has a slightly different on-time for the motor triac. I think the end result is that either will work, but in some cases the motor needs to be a bit slower (I think), so they fit an A chip. Were talking a tiny fraction slower (less than 1/6th reduction).
Where is the ‘A’ found?
In the ideal world, I’d make the GAL multi-purpose to do both via jumpers, but will need to think (product terms, pin changes, effort etc). Might just be we make both available at order time (for those who want it 100% accurate).
I will put up the GAL rewrites I did, once we start ‘production’. It’s just pinout changing really, but want to be sure it’s 100%.
Oh and afterburner is quite different. Looks like the same sort of mains sync stuff, but I think one PAL must do 2 triacs? Would that sound right? I don’t know much about the boards and havent seen a schematic.
RetroClinic
User
Great! I've seen the A variant in Space Harrier DLX, where the drive board has one of each fitted, but I can't remember what one goes where.
Yes, the AB drive board for the Commander version that only moves in one direction does drive two triacs, not sure why! The full movement version has 4 triacs on board, so that would make sense.
Thanks, Mark.
Yes, the AB drive board for the Commander version that only moves in one direction does drive two triacs, not sure why! The full movement version has 4 triacs on board, so that would make sense.
Thanks, Mark.
John Bennett
Senior Member
Could it be that there’s a slightly different motor for the A version?
I’m still learning with GALs, but looks like you might be able to feed outputs back as inputs, there could be scope for some trickery. Will try later.
I’m still learning with GALs, but looks like you might be able to feed outputs back as inputs, there could be scope for some trickery. Will try later.
John Bennett
Senior Member
Ok, I'd say I've done what I can with it, so next is cabinet trials.
I hooked up a halogen lamp in place of a motor and it was OK, so it does a couple of amps and 120V no problem. The clutch drive MOSFET seems to work well too (I can almost set a power resistor on fire through it doing >5A). So, so far, all seems good with the modern alternatives to the obsolete parts.
I might build up at least one more prototype too - there's nothing to lose as there's almost no changes for the 1.1 version, so they should be sellable after testing, I'd hope.
A final WIP photo - got the proper connector
After a bit of chin-stroking, I managed to get the GAL22V10 to do emulate simultaneously both the normal and the 'A' PAL
. To choose between the modes you use the jumpers. The penalty is one extra jumper (a tiny wire mod on the prototype), but it's worth it rather than faffing around having to write normal or 'A' GALs for different folks.
So hopefully very close now (will get back onto finances and logistics etc A.S.A.P ). I was also wondering about whether it's better to find volunteers in different continents to build/test boards than for us UK folk to supply the entire world (provoked by a CircuitMaker message we got from someone in Chile today
)
I hooked up a halogen lamp in place of a motor and it was OK, so it does a couple of amps and 120V no problem. The clutch drive MOSFET seems to work well too (I can almost set a power resistor on fire through it doing >5A). So, so far, all seems good with the modern alternatives to the obsolete parts.
I might build up at least one more prototype too - there's nothing to lose as there's almost no changes for the 1.1 version, so they should be sellable after testing, I'd hope.
A final WIP photo - got the proper connector
After a bit of chin-stroking, I managed to get the GAL22V10 to do emulate simultaneously both the normal and the 'A' PAL
So hopefully very close now (will get back onto finances and logistics etc A.S.A.P ). I was also wondering about whether it's better to find volunteers in different continents to build/test boards than for us UK folk to supply the entire world (provoked by a CircuitMaker message we got from someone in Chile today
RetroClinic
User
Great work!