Summerhouse heating/temperature

andyman

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_Matt_ said:
I remember <snip>

I have built lots of outdoor buildings...converted garages etc. and never worried about an air gap...I usually fill the cavity with PIR and then line with standard plasterboard...if there is no air, there is no mould and have been doing what I do for 30+ years...I still go back to properties where I have done this and 10 years later, no problems

The more you seal up a bulding, the more issues you will have though...UPVC adds lots of issues...as does cold hard surfaces..i.e tiles etc...for these situations you really need full heating and not just convection rads...

If not sealing up the entire building the air gap in the roof wont matter...30mm PIR isnt worth the investment as its not really efficient...I use 50-75mm on pitched roofs...100mm on flat roofs and 75mm on walls (made from tanalised 3x2) again no air gap...ventilation then becomes important (doors and windows act as ventilation too) and as long as you have an exchange of air daily...all good...a ceiling fan on constant or extractor & vent at opposite ends would work if not in daily use although I expect it might be :)

By all means clad the out side but first line it...12mm plywood best...OSB good enough...then a breathable membrane, then the cladding...also screw cladding at 300mm intervals, stops it warping along its length...which it will try to do

Inside standard 12.5mm plasterboard walls, 9mm on
the roof...quick qkim of plaster as opposed to tape & fill as it
protects the plasterboard a bit more from accidental damage and adds
another layer...which is better for paint finish than just plasterboard
alon

Lasty get timber from a timber yard, same as recommendation for PIR from a builders merchant...Selco often has offers on PIR or Feebay is good for it too...over orders
 

Venom

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Ot of interest what do you professionals use to attach the wooden frame/Battons to a brick/stone wall.

DO you use normal wall plugs or bolts/hammer in plugs etc ?

Just curious.
 

andyman

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Venom said:
Ot of interest what do you professionals use to attach the wooden frame/Battons to a brick/stone wall.

DO you use normal wall plugs or bolts/hammer in plugs etc ?

Just curious.

No nails
smiley36.gif


Decent 7mm plugs and 75mm or 100mm screws usually but all jobs different...chemical bolt if you want to hang weight from them...very cheap compared to expanding bolts and hammer fixings
 

Retroman839

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I have to follow NHBC and structural and architectural plans.
The air gap is so the insulation celotex or Kingspan or recticel )
Doesn’t touch the vapour barrier.....
Why you don’t want insulation touching the vapour barrier ?

Because that’s when it does not breath properly
It is a breathable membrane...

Condensation will build up on the outside side of the membrane. At night
then dry off as the air temp rises early next morning and moisture content lowers.as sun rises...

Breathable vapour barrier only works when there is an air gap
Because anywhere where something touched it from underside it will allow water to penetrate.
Throw to the underside... that’s when mould grows...

It just so happens that I worked at a house where the gentleman had just donated a kidney to his daughter
She was at the time youngest ever recipient of a kidney in the uk.
And he wanted a bathroom medical standard for him and his daughter..

Medical style taps non slip floor...
Well the building
Company that had built this extension had gone bust and
The boss ran off to Spain!

And I could smell the damp imidiatly!
Having played in old sheds as a youngster...

I had to say the the gentleman I’m very sorry but In light
Of you & your daughters medical requirements( daughter was in imuno seprest having only just come home from hospital on imuno sepresant drugs for the kidney...

Really he said ,,, yes I said! I have a nose for these things!

He allows me to remove the plaster board in one bedroom
Not only is it black with mould water dripping off,,
It also had white fungus.... growing rampant....

Guess what they hadn’t left an air gap...

At night moisture content rises as air temp falls...
Heat evaporates the water... liquid to gas..next day

But if insulation touches it it comes through...traps it
And it goes mouldy..

And that’s why I always leave and air gap.
 

andyman

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Yeah, condensation would be rampant in a building with a bathroom but we are talking about a room with a few arcade cabs...unless there is like 20 people in there...the condesation would be minimum..outside sheathed in ply or OSB with a membrane on that before the cladding would reduce, if not negate any likelyhood of internal condesation. plasterboard direct on the inside, as long as all cavity between framing is filled with insulation, no air means no mould...

I always leave an air gap in a domestic installation as people are the main source of the black mould but outside 'sheds' no need...believe me, I've done loads of them without issue, going back 25 years
smiley4.gif
 

Retroman839

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Yeh sheds in garden
But I build dwellings in gardens...

I build cavity insulated timber frame exterior cladded out side liveable dwellings
People like to pretend it’s a shed but put there mother-in-law’s In after retirement.
Or rent as a long term income prospect for there own retirement...

I new a scientist in the world rice organisation...
He helped develop genetically modified rice for bill gates fund.. for the long term
Survival of the Human species on earth in a global green house type global warming environment...
Now that most of the earth is arid...

We need a good yield of rice to sustain the human race...

Right ok what’s got to do with it ?

Water from a desert that’s what...
He made the instruments to extract water at night in the Sahara desert!
It’s the 1st fundermentle law of thermo dynamics...
And glass is the best collector of condensation... or water if you like

That’s how you irrigate rice in the Sahara if ever need to....
And that’s what goes on all the time in houses and that’s why they need to breath...

That’s why a house is like the human body
Skeleton
Wiring
Pluming
Breathing
Outer skin
 
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