VERY nice EPROM programmer...

[P-Man]

Sounds like you've made up your mind then If you're going to use a silly computer like a Mac then you are restricting your choices to whatever you can run software on... just dont come running to us when you have to pay the same amount again for a programmer to do stuff it doesn't support

 

[guddler]

Andre, you really are flogging a dead horse when it comes to Mac and tech kit. I'm not saying that from a fan of one or the other, I'm saying it from experience of someone that went exclusively Mac from 2005 until earlier this year, and also used a Mac for my work life too (though what a pain that was!).

The bottom line was, that I was never able to go Mac in the workshop for arcade stuff. The best you can possibly hope for if you want to be able to use decent tools and software is to use BootCamp directly or a VM (Fusion or Parallels I guess). Both will work, but forget about OS X when it comes to arcade repair you will be severely limiting what you can do and how you can do it. I know, I've been there and done that.

In the end I bought an Aspire Revo 3600 (I think it was the 3600). A tiny little thing that can be mounted to the back of a monitor. Admittedly the models they have now are more expensive than the one I bought, but all my problems went away when I bought that and my options opened up

 

[trm]

Apart from that, the Batronix supports Mac which is paramount for me...

Is Bootcamp an option to increase the range of suitable hardware or are you pre-intel Mac? My non iDevice Mac stuff is all G5 so I've no idea how well Bootcamp deals with hardware IO for the older DOS stuff.

 

[guddler]

Tim, Bootcamp is native windows running on a dual boot setup, so it's fine for everything Windows based

Bootcamp is just Apples term for dual boot. In this case, a very viable and sensible option for arcade tech provided as you say, it's an intel Mac.

 

[DanP]

I've gone to using a Mac for everything - except Arcade stuff.

 

[Level42]

Silly computers....yeah....I am a silly man so I like silly computers.

 

[Level42]

Oh, try to do a search on the supported device list on the Wellon site:

http://www.weilei.com/VP-380list.htm

good luck.....probably hosted on a PC....

ah:

Type(–Õ∫≈):2732

Microsoft JET Database Engine ¥ÌŒÛ '80040e10'

÷¡…Ÿ“ª∏ˆ≤Œ ˝√ª”–±ª÷∏∂®÷µ°£

/search1.asp£¨–– 61







Yup Microsoft......should have known...




This doesn't really look like a very reliable source...

Level422012-12-05 16:13:04

 

[guddler]

Jet database engine means they're using Access for the DB which really is incredibly "Mickey Mouse" !! Though I think it is possible to just use the OLE DB Jet driver to do stuff like connect ASP to MySQL. Not 100% sure. Either way, yeah, it's not a good omen is it!!

 

[Level42]

Geez.....funny....

My good friend Robin just pointed me to this:

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/mspacrom.html

(read the lower part mostly, the Batronix already reads 2532s by default)

I was assuming the 2532 would need negative power like the 2708 but it doesn't.

The only incompatibility between a 2532 and a 2732 is it's pin-layout.

So, building this dead-simple adapter will allow you to program 2532s on any programmer that can do 2732s....

Problem solved.

Andrew, I highly value your opinion and you've been great help with regards to the Fluke 9100, but I don't really see you are already dismissing the Batronix without having any hands on experience with it.

Stating that in general USB programmers won't work with older EPROMs because of the voltage issue doesn't mean that this is automatically true for this programmer too.

This device is from Germany, not from China. Judging by their website (very professional) I get the impression that these guys aren't going to lie about what their devices can or cannot do. Their lighting fast reply also says something about their idea of support, I'd like to see that happening with any Chinese company.

However, it is easy enough, not only do they give a 5 year guarantee, they also give a 30 day trial period. If you don't like it you can return it and get your money back....

BUT....I was inspired by this discussion to dig up the Needham and an ancient Toshiba 1910

(

that I got from my good friend Etienne. It ran W98 and DOS, installed the software and ran it in DOS mode and it works great. To my surprise, the floppy drive is HD and I also still have a USB floppy drive which works happily on my Mac (how's that for a company that was first to drop floppy drives in their machines ?) so I can exchange files rather easily.....

So....I have a working set-up now......and I'm not that sure if I really need the Batronix that badly anymore.... it's not like I check/program everyday...

Let's give it a couple of days to think about

Level422012-12-05 21:47:18

 

[P-Man]

Its ok, this a recurring subject over the years with arcade collectors, i can be very negative at times, but for good reason. Why?

Because all of these USB eprom programmers use the same technology of chips to drive the pins. All of these eprom programmers are pin-programmable, ie, the programmer can flip a single pin between data/address/power/chip select/program etc etc..

The technology of the pin-switching hardware inside has not changed in years, and each pin can usually sink or source about 250ma. This is not enough for a lot of older devices, notably 2716/2732/2764/27128 will give you mixed results depending on the exact device you use, usually its down to the manufacturer of the chip, or the year of manufacture. Looking at datasheets, you often need 300ma minimum, up to 600ma at times. The 250ma limit is worked really hard and it does often work, but can quite often fail with spurious writes, or just a never ending stream of failures in the software.

So, there are a multitude of programmers out there, and companies will make programmers that say they support X device without actually testing the devices, they are merely programming the support into the device just by writing software equations/drivers from a datasheet. The reality is that for the most part, you can read these devices with little problems, but if programming fails, the company can just tell you that "well, you're using a 30 year old device - anything could be wrong" - the fob-off factor is very high if it should ever come to answering a support call for a device that wont program.

The fact that a small number of their customer base wants to program some crappy old devices that nobody uses anymore is far from their target audience, and so what if it isn't quite right? its hardly going to affect sales. The target audience for this programmer is the PLD/PIC market or much later/newer devices.

I still think you'd feel a bit grieved when you wanted to program something bigger than 32 pins and couldn't I'm just trying to save you money!

Thats why i'm a negative nelly

P-Man2012-12-06 09:50:55

 

[P-Man]

Incidentally recently i used a Needhams EMP-10 in the USA that was hooked to a Pentium 2 laptop running Windows 98. After a bit of searching, i managed to install the USB mass-storage driver which allowed me to use the early USB port that it had... using USB memstick to transfer files, problem solved!

In the past i have used a 486DX laptop with a programmer (no usb support) by putting in a network pcmcia card and making a share folder on the network to pull files across from - or use the floppy drive.

There are pcmcia USB cards around if you wanted to do the same, but you'd need to be running win98 at least.

It doesn't hurt to have a cheap win98 laptop sitting around with a serial and parallel port on it, very useful for a lot of tasks, even if it is just to have dumb serial terminal at times

 

[Macro]

as a sideline to this, you can use parallel port programmers on 32 bit versions of windows if you bung a portIO driver that lets the program talk direct to the port - I've had it working on XP and windows 7 (still use it with my Xeltec 300 L programmer) - but I've only ever had it working with onboard LPT ports, it doesn't like PCI cards

incidentally, I have 3 programmers to cover the range

Xeltec 300 L does proms through to 42 pin chips (but doesn't work with the 27c322 style ones) and doesn't do three rail devices.

Data IO does proms and 2708's etc.

which left me without support for 27c322's and bigger, so I got another Xeltec, but this time the 280 U model (which incidentally does work on 64 bit windows 7 - see my web page for info on how to do it) - 280 does not do proms though, otherwise I would get shot of the 280 L

I still use the 300 L most of the time, the others are only for when I need to do particular chips, even though it does have dos software

 

[P-Man]

parallel port progger win7-32 tho, not 64-bit i'm assuming?

 

[Level42]

Andrew, I can only say every word in that message makes sense and I see your point and I also never doubted your positive intentions for me about this, you don't spend time on these long replies for nothing, so: thanks !

Still would like to give that Batronix a try, but as I mentioned, for now I'm all set, I can think of a better purpose for the money I saved

I tried to get the Needham running under XP with the info and files from this site:

http://www.arcadesolution.com/needhams.html

and never got it working reliably.

I just burnt a 2716 using the Toshiba successfully. It's pretty slow but as long as it's reliable that's OK for now.

 

[P-Man]

The speed of programming really old devices does not usually increase with newer hardware, its pretty much a set speed for the old stuff in my experience..

enjoy

 

[Level42]

Isn't it Ironic.....

Just got the Asterock PCB out of the machine to try a Freeplay patch and guess what EPROMs it uses.......yup 2708

Looks like I need to build a little adapter....

 

[RaveN]

I have a Batronix.
It's the Batupa Mk1, I seem to remember getting it rather cheaply from ebay. It's not my main device but is a great backup.

Like you have already found, it doesn't do 2708s (not a massive deal, you don't come across too many of those) and it only reads 2532/2516s (you can make an adapter tho for writing). HOWEVER, it has amazing software support. Every time I connect it to the PC it has a new software update for it. It works with MAC/Linux/Win and it just.....works, you don't have to worry about lac of support support (willem), or fiddling around with LPT or 32/64bit drivers.

Also, it does 25v amazingly well. A lot of usb powered devices struggle, with cheap dc-dc boost converters, but this one is fine.

Andy

 

[Level42]

AH ! AH !........

 

[RaveN]

Sorry, I should have added a disclaimer... Remember, this is my backup device so it hasn't been extensively used. Although I have programmed quite a few different types of 25v eproms, there's bound to be some tricky ones out there it can't do.

 

[cliff_poole]

I recently had the need to generate +12V and -5V from +5V. If you search ebay for LM2577, you'll find handy modules to generate the +12V, and a 7660 chip will give you the -5V. The currents involved are only tiny and it does save using external power supplies.