Asteroids Cabaret Restore
- Thread starter Equites
- Start date
Dudes - a little more progress. Tested the three voltage regulators as directed by Guddler and P-Man, the voltages checked out good. So, power seems to be good all round, problem is the PCB.
I am going to take DanP's advice and try and isolate firstly where the problem is, the CPU or DVG. Actually, may be worth testing the ROMs against ROMIDENT first?
Equites2011-01-01 23:21:46
I am going to take DanP's advice and try and isolate firstly where the problem is, the CPU or DVG. Actually, may be worth testing the ROMs against ROMIDENT first?
Equites2011-01-01 23:21:46
I'd always go for a romident if you have the facilities and you've gone past the basic stuff like proving the CPU is at least trying to boot. Doesn't take very long and rules out a good chunk of potential problems. This is based on bitter experience from not doing romidents frequently enough and troubleshooting boards that are dying because the code is just a bunch of 0xFF 
Thanks Tim
I did just that, not making massive leaps here at all, but at least eliminating stuff on the way. Read all the EPROMs on the PCB and threw them through WinROMident to see if they were good;
So at least we know EPROMs are good.
Equites2011-01-03 15:38:00
I did just that, not making massive leaps here at all, but at least eliminating stuff on the way. Read all the EPROMs on the PCB and threw them through WinROMident to see if they were good;
So at least we know EPROMs are good.
Equites2011-01-03 15:38:00
I personally wouldn't relish the prospect of fixing any PCB without some of the repair kit that I have, but maybe I've just got lazy over the years
I think if it were me I would engage the services of someone like Andy (assuming he's taking stuff on). Or if you prefer, buy another working PCB. Neither option is going to be cheap but clearly this is a cab you're wanting to put some effort into so in this instance I would say that route fits well.
I think if it were me I would engage the services of someone like Andy (assuming he's taking stuff on). Or if you prefer, buy another working PCB. Neither option is going to be cheap but clearly this is a cab you're wanting to put some effort into so in this instance I would say that route fits well.
My thoughts are that no pcb is worth attempting to fix if you don't have the right kit.. but i'd say this was especially the case if you're a beginner, do not start on a vector game, they are absolute dogs to work on if you're a beginner, with a very very steep learning curve.
If you want to learn board repair, start with an easy raster game like Galaxian, you can sit that on your bench, run it on your jamma rig and poke and prod at it without :
a) fear of damaging a delicate pcb (IC replacement especially, do not learn on an Asteroids!)
b) doing your knees, head, neck in craning into a cabinet as its the only way you can power it
I would reccomend sending the pcb off to someone that can repair it properly and timely. I do repair pcbs, i have a few lined up at the moment and i may be abroad next week, so probably couldn't return it within 3 weeks or so. PM me if you want, or look for somoene else to fix0r it
From this point forward, as has been suggested, you could possibly clip the DMAGO signal to see if the game runs blind, but in my experience if you have sounds firing off, and coin counters clicking, i think you have MPU problems really and clipping the DMAGO is a bit of a futile gesture as even if you did determine the MPU was running, you're looking at a DVG problem, and that is certainly not something anyone is going to step you through while working on a pcb in the back of a cabinet, you wouldn't want to anyway
P-Man2011-01-03 16:54:38
If you want to learn board repair, start with an easy raster game like Galaxian, you can sit that on your bench, run it on your jamma rig and poke and prod at it without :
a) fear of damaging a delicate pcb (IC replacement especially, do not learn on an Asteroids!)
b) doing your knees, head, neck in craning into a cabinet as its the only way you can power it
I would reccomend sending the pcb off to someone that can repair it properly and timely. I do repair pcbs, i have a few lined up at the moment and i may be abroad next week, so probably couldn't return it within 3 weeks or so. PM me if you want, or look for somoene else to fix0r it
From this point forward, as has been suggested, you could possibly clip the DMAGO signal to see if the game runs blind, but in my experience if you have sounds firing off, and coin counters clicking, i think you have MPU problems really and clipping the DMAGO is a bit of a futile gesture as even if you did determine the MPU was running, you're looking at a DVG problem, and that is certainly not something anyone is going to step you through while working on a pcb in the back of a cabinet, you wouldn't want to anyway
P-Man2011-01-03 16:54:38
Hi Nad,
What test gear do you have? I didn't realise until I just re-read this thread from beginning to end that you seem to be working out of the back of the machine and that's really going to make things difficult (please don't ask me how I know this
).
The other part which resonates is that this probably isn't the ideal board to start off with, especially not in such tricky repair circumstances. All of which is battling the bit of my brain that's saying "encourage and help people learn!"
(Un)fortunately, I've not yet got round to working on an Atari vector board so have no opinion on the relative difficulty but I know p-man and Martin wouldn't be advising you against it for any reason other than honestly thinking this isn't a good place to start. And they form a good chunk of the guys who'll need to reply to your posts as I can't help on this one past the pre-vector parts.
On the other hand is it possible that you can make up a test bench rig? I've got a couple of Atari PCBs of that age around somewhere which are BER due to either previous owners having a go with a pipe soldering gun or snapping the legs off all the key ICs so if you want some of those to practice socket replacement and general desoldering I can find them out. Probably still doesn't make this a practical first repair job, but it'll give you some experience working on Atari boards if you want to.
And if you feel like picking something a bit easier - say a Hard Drivin' 3 layer stack
then get it in Tech and I'll help as much as I can.
Sorry it's not positive news, but at least you've got the cab to restore.
cheers
tim
What test gear do you have? I didn't realise until I just re-read this thread from beginning to end that you seem to be working out of the back of the machine and that's really going to make things difficult (please don't ask me how I know this
The other part which resonates is that this probably isn't the ideal board to start off with, especially not in such tricky repair circumstances. All of which is battling the bit of my brain that's saying "encourage and help people learn!"
(Un)fortunately, I've not yet got round to working on an Atari vector board so have no opinion on the relative difficulty but I know p-man and Martin wouldn't be advising you against it for any reason other than honestly thinking this isn't a good place to start. And they form a good chunk of the guys who'll need to reply to your posts as I can't help on this one past the pre-vector parts.
On the other hand is it possible that you can make up a test bench rig? I've got a couple of Atari PCBs of that age around somewhere which are BER due to either previous owners having a go with a pipe soldering gun or snapping the legs off all the key ICs so if you want some of those to practice socket replacement and general desoldering I can find them out. Probably still doesn't make this a practical first repair job, but it'll give you some experience working on Atari boards if you want to.
And if you feel like picking something a bit easier - say a Hard Drivin' 3 layer stack
Sorry it's not positive news, but at least you've got the cab to restore.
cheers
tim
Thanks Guddler/Tim/Andy
As Clint once said, 'A man has to know his limitations....', and in this respect, I will not be attempting repair myself. Instead, the services of someone experienced so I can get on with the rest of the restore.
Equites2011-01-03 18:11:31
As Clint once said, 'A man has to know his limitations....', and in this respect, I will not be attempting repair myself. Instead, the services of someone experienced so I can get on with the rest of the restore.
Equites2011-01-03 18:11:31
Thanks Tim - I've decided to leave the PCB in the hands of someone I trust.
I really need to practice desoldering, my skills at soldering I think are pretty good, but still room for improvement.
It's my desoldering which is not too good. De-soldering caps are no problem for me, but I do struggle with ICs, what do you guys do?
I will have a dig around for a PCB to repair
Equites2011-01-05 00:04:36
I really need to practice desoldering, my skills at soldering I think are pretty good, but still room for improvement.
It's my desoldering which is not too good. De-soldering caps are no problem for me, but I do struggle with ICs, what do you guys do?
I will have a dig around for a PCB to repair
Equites2011-01-05 00:04:36
if you know the ic you want to remove is bad the easiest way of removing them is to cut the legs and remove the body of the ic so you are left with just the legs sticking out, then desolder the legs one by one
but the best way is to invest in a desoldering station you could probably get the ic's out whole then
math
but the best way is to invest in a desoldering station you could probably get the ic's out whole then
math
Equites said:Thanks Tim - I've decided to leave the PCB in the hands of someone I trust.
I really need to practice desoldering, my skills at soldering I think are pretty good, but still room for improvement.
It's my desoldering which is not too good. De-soldering caps are no problem for me, but I do struggle with ICs, what do you guys do?
I will have a dig around for a PCB to repair
I've got a Toki board if you need something to practice on
Equites said:
Some people have the patience and the skill to get the ICs out with nothing more than a solder sucker, solder braid and patience. I'm not one of those people though. Very early on I invested in a desolder station. At the time I think I paid £275 for it but it was worth every penny!
Have to agree, desoldering without a desolder station was tedious and error prone. It's sooooo much easier and causes less damage with it than using the sucker/braid approach. The cost of the station has paid for itself by me not damaging boards using the previous method
Dan
Dan