Car people - Buying a used car in 2023, it's a nightmare!
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John Bennett
Senior Member
I think ecosport pretty-much means tiny 3-cylinder engine + turbo.
VW, Peugeot and others do similar.
They're great in Fiestas and Fabias, but I do wonder how efficient a little 1.0 is, ragging its nuts off to pull a 1.5 tonne Mondeo or Passat around though.
MPG scrimping stuff like wet belts, direct injection and stop/start aren't great for longevity either.
Get shot if it ,there’s Facebook groups about the problems of the wet belt disintegrating .horror stories about new engines costing a fortune ..I’ve a 2litre turbo Ford ,but wouldn’t be confident of the 1 litre turbo from what I’ve read
Nearly every car/van i've ever had has come from either a breakers yard or a salvage yard. Helps when you know how to fix them yourself! 
My first car came from the local breakers yard, back in 1996, my dad had known the owner for many years. D reg 1.0 3 door Austin Metro, needed a few bits for an MOT but not much, simple to fix up. My current vehicle, a 2012 Transit 125T350 FWD 'Trend' van came from the local salvage yard as a stolen recovered. Had no damage, just had had the vin plate removed, vin number ground off the chassis etc. Getting a log book was pretty easy, but it was a bit of a pain in the arse getting a new vin plate as it was right in the middle of the pandemic, Ford was basically closed and that's the only place you can get one really. Took a couple of months or so but got it in the end, I only had to replace the speedo cluster as it was a low spec one that had presumably been put in by whoever had stolen it, and it should have a high spec one. I set the mileage to what it should be (going by the last MOT), not what the wrong speedo said (something like about half of what it had actually done), got an MOT and that was it. Still got it now, it's been a really good van. It was a good buy as well, like cars van prices also went up a lot in the pandemic so it was a bit cheaper than most vans being sold elsewhere.
My first car came from the local breakers yard, back in 1996, my dad had known the owner for many years. D reg 1.0 3 door Austin Metro, needed a few bits for an MOT but not much, simple to fix up. My current vehicle, a 2012 Transit 125T350 FWD 'Trend' van came from the local salvage yard as a stolen recovered. Had no damage, just had had the vin plate removed, vin number ground off the chassis etc. Getting a log book was pretty easy, but it was a bit of a pain in the arse getting a new vin plate as it was right in the middle of the pandemic, Ford was basically closed and that's the only place you can get one really. Took a couple of months or so but got it in the end, I only had to replace the speedo cluster as it was a low spec one that had presumably been put in by whoever had stolen it, and it should have a high spec one. I set the mileage to what it should be (going by the last MOT), not what the wrong speedo said (something like about half of what it had actually done), got an MOT and that was it. Still got it now, it's been a really good van. It was a good buy as well, like cars van prices also went up a lot in the pandemic so it was a bit cheaper than most vans being sold elsewhere.
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Talking about cars from scrap yard, the computer maintenance place I worked, girl in reception came work in this old fiesta, they hand painted it black, one day she had to phone her husband to come back because he had the key and the car was still running
Few of us in office talking one morning, one of the lads said about buying parts from them for his car, she said we get everything for ours from scrappy, so I chirped in I thought you'd got the car from there all the others were laughing even the manager tart was and she turned round and gave me such a look lol. that was in the mid 90s
Fair play on that though TB, cars get wrote off for naff all now so you can get decent cars from salvage
Few of us in office talking one morning, one of the lads said about buying parts from them for his car, she said we get everything for ours from scrappy, so I chirped in I thought you'd got the car from there
all the others were laughing even the manager tart was and she turned round and gave me such a look lol. that was in the mid 90s Fair play on that though TB, cars get wrote off for naff all now so you can get decent cars from salvage
Funny you say about emissions tests - my dad's got a 1954 Ford Consul MK1, had it years but hasn't driven it for ages as it needs quite some work now. Anyway, when he was using it more regularly (over 15 years ago at least), even though it didnt need an MOT even back then (due to being an "historic vehicle") he still took it into the MOT station for a check over as he knew the people in there anyway (as he had his own car repair business for probably 40 years and had used them for years). They stuck the emissions test probe up the exhaust and said it was actully running cleaner than most modern vehicles! They couldn't believe how good and low the emissions were on it. Pretty good for an old 1.5l 4 cylinder OHV engine running on a single carb!
Very interesting TB, is this why they don't test old cars for emissions as it says above older cars diesel before 1980 and petrol before 1975 are only tested by sight
So what does that mean, if its throwing out visible smoke it fails but not smoking but could be throwing out harmful gases it's all good
Every time my CRX goes for MOT they put it fails fast idle test on 1st go but passes 2nd go, I watched him testing it this time on emissions and 30 years old and no smoking at all
as it says above older cars diesel before 1980 and petrol before 1975 are only tested by sightSo what does that mean, if its throwing out visible smoke it fails but not smoking but could be throwing out harmful gases it's all good
Every time my CRX goes for MOT they put it fails fast idle test on 1st go but passes 2nd go, I watched him testing it this time on emissions and 30 years old and no smoking at all
Just saying ... that if you get something over 40 years old ... then ... sure ... you gotta look after it (or have it looked after) a bit more, but equally ... no ULEZ in major cities, no MOT, no road tax ... plus, you're doing your bit for the environment by stopping more scrapping!
John Bennett
Senior Member
Sweet, I'll take no-emissions test on my 508 hybrid, considering the pain I have with the 180sx and emissions each year (although I think I've sorted it now).
I'd imagine it's probably a nightmare to test hybrids as each one will have a different set of circumstances to turn the engine on, and you might not even be able to rev it in idle. Mine turns it off below 38mph, unless you put it in sport mode. Which I do. Every journey*.
*well other than the super short ones where I'd rather go electric than fire-up a cold engine for 5 minutes.
I'd imagine it's probably a nightmare to test hybrids as each one will have a different set of circumstances to turn the engine on, and you might not even be able to rev it in idle. Mine turns it off below 38mph, unless you put it in sport mode. Which I do. Every journey*.
*well other than the super short ones where I'd rather go electric than fire-up a cold engine for 5 minutes.
All you do on Hybrids is check the EML / emissions light illuminates and goes back out and the cats are fitted and untampered with .
No need to do an emissions test as the car checks itself and throws the light on if its unhappy and you fail it on that.
Glad the emissions test is becoming less and less as its the most annoying part of the test as it can take an age to get the machine back to zero so you can do a measurement.
Pre 90's have no chance of passing todays emission standard, today is 0.2% Co and 200 PPM HC and pre 90's is something like 5% Co and 1200 PPM HC
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Good point but if the Germans could get away with the emissions being lowered when it was being tested why didn't manufacturers have to have a service mode for MOT to test emissions buy cutting out the electric and running on fuel only and they do come with a figure as tested by them for the standards, so that could be a bigger scam than the Diesel one if no hybrid is tested they could be far higher than any manufacturers quoted
Oh well just another Farce from Government in a long line of bullshit
Oh well just another Farce from Government in a long line of bullshit
All hybrids I know have a setting to use combustion power as and when necessary so you could check it as part of an MOT if they changed their minds but with diesels becoming a thing of the past in passenger vehicles and plug in hybrid and EV taking over its unlikely to be a problem.
Todays petrol cars with electronic fuel injection , variable timing and 2 or more cats fitted you would die of thirst before smoke inhalation if you did the old hoover pipe in the window trick.
Todays petrol cars with electronic fuel injection , variable timing and 2 or more cats fitted you would die of thirst before smoke inhalation if you did the old hoover pipe in the window trick.
I can only imagine the ECU / emissions system on early vehicles don't cause the EML light to illuminate as it will do today as the first cats were very basic in operation, would need to think back if the early ones even had Oxygen sensors fitted or at best just one, todays cars can have three or more so far more accurate.
I know little about anything after early 2000's lol
My 2000 HRV had 2 sensors but with current engine out the Civic which only had 1 on cat it's only got that one connected as that's all the ECU needs, we were looking at the van at work which had 4 you could see
I don't understand the emissions stuff fully but like your 180sx John my CRX just passes some years, on 2nd fast idle test. looking at the MOT its 1994 car
Tested in 2017 it's down as
max Co 0.30 and first fast idle was 0.54
2nd test 0.27
HC Max 200 ppm actual 58 and 2nd test 63 ppm
Same MOT place 2019 then put
Max Co 0.200 and actual 0.257 so fails, then 2nd test its 0.191 so pass but if it's tested at Co Max of 0.300 the year before then surly it should be that in 2019 because in 2023 its back at Max Co of 0.300
the HC same 200 max and this year 1st fast idle was 25 ppm and 2nd was 18 ppm
So 2023 same place
Max Co 0.300 again 1st fast idle fails at 0.770 this time
HC 58 ppm
2nd test
Co down to 0.299 so just passed
HC 63ppm
last week I took it same place
again it's down as 0.300 Max for Co
1st fast idle fails at 0.416
HC ppm max 200 and actual 56
2nd fast idle down to 0.240 so pass
HC 55 ppm
Now if I look at 2 MOTs of my 2000 HRV which passes no problems
2019 same MOT place again
Max Co on this says 0.200 and passed with 0.004
HC max 200 ppm and actual 105
2021 same place
Co max 0.200 and passed with 0.093 so much higher but well under
yet this time HC max 200 actual only 38 this time
I'd have to check all mots but I did change the O2 sensor a few years back, not sure which because it was running on the HRV original so after I managed to get the original out the civic exhaust I fitted that
Just seems to vary so much depending on how much car driven before MOT, it's 1/4 mile from me house and I give it a blast around first but the figures are all over the place on both, flippin mad all of it is
If we like the owner and the emissions fails we rally the car round the block in second gear flat out so the cat gets red hot and test it again, 9 times out of 10 this will get it through if its sitting around the limit, shouldn't do this really as the test only allows you to increase the revs slightly and retest which often does sod all where having a cat running hotter than a Maccies apple pie filling will likely do the trick.
Most testers will do what thy can to get you over the line with emissions on an MOT as its a crap job to figure out why its failing and no one likes diagnostics, no money in it.
Most primary cats seem to be up next to the manifold these days so they get to operating temp quicker, early cars it was mid way down the car so took much longer to get it hot so a quick drive to the station doesn't cut it,
Most testers will do what thy can to get you over the line with emissions on an MOT as its a crap job to figure out why its failing and no one likes diagnostics, no money in it.
Most primary cats seem to be up next to the manifold these days so they get to operating temp quicker, early cars it was mid way down the car so took much longer to get it hot so a quick drive to the station doesn't cut it,
John Bennett
Senior Member
I would imagine it would be quite a roll-out to send an encyclopedic manual to MOT testers to give them the ICE fire-up procedure for all hybrids, and to let them rev high enough for the test. So I hope they don't 🤪. I think some cars like the Honda civic have the engine at optimal, fixed-revs, as a generator, and the propulsion is all electric, there's so many variants. Edit: Don't Mazda have a little rotary as a generator in one of their cars?
They are definitely laden with emissions stuff though, I think mine even has a petrol particulate filter (thankfully they're not like the diesel ones), so they should be very clean.
With the 180sx, the lambda went and my sports cat packed in, hence I had a panic trying to work out what was wrong to get the levels down for the retest as I drew the line at buying an emissions tester for home. It did pass fine in the end, although you can see it needs a warm-up, which increases as the cat wears out over the years, so it was barely scraping through on the fast idle with higher revs by the end of the cat. Interestingly the lambda failing screwed the lambda up but made one of the other readings perfect 🤪- the tester was insistent it wasn't my cat at fault too (it was).
The ECU doesn't flag the MIL or set any fault when the lambda isn't cycling lean/reach like it should, but you could see how newer ECUs would easily flag that up..
They are definitely laden with emissions stuff though, I think mine even has a petrol particulate filter (thankfully they're not like the diesel ones), so they should be very clean.
With the 180sx, the lambda went and my sports cat packed in, hence I had a panic trying to work out what was wrong to get the levels down for the retest as I drew the line at buying an emissions tester for home. It did pass fine in the end, although you can see it needs a warm-up, which increases as the cat wears out over the years, so it was barely scraping through on the fast idle with higher revs by the end of the cat. Interestingly the lambda failing screwed the lambda up but made one of the other readings perfect 🤪- the tester was insistent it wasn't my cat at fault too (it was).
The ECU doesn't flag the MIL or set any fault when the lambda isn't cycling lean/reach like it should, but you could see how newer ECUs would easily flag that up..
Diesel Particulate filters run clean as a whistle same as petrol ones if they are given a proper run each week at reasonable speed / revs and allowed to carry out a regen when required.
DPF have issues when they don't get hot enough to burn off the soot due to short runs and failing to continue driving until the regn has finished.
Don't get me wrong its a really crappy system that does the engine no favours ( adblue and DPF are our most common issues) but its not as bad as people make out.
DPF have issues when they don't get hot enough to burn off the soot due to short runs and failing to continue driving until the regn has finished.
Don't get me wrong its a really crappy system that does the engine no favours ( adblue and DPF are our most common issues) but its not as bad as people make out.
John Bennett
Senior Member
We had no problem with the DPF in the 2012 Mondeo and the 2016 S-max, but on the 2020 S-max, it failed within 2 years and 20k miles. No thrashing/regenerating by me or the dealer would clear it, it was trashed.
I don't know what changed, maybe they changed the tech, or maybe it was because the 2020 car is an automatic so it spends its life rumbling around at 1200rpm.
We just never needed to do a frequent long run before, but now I'm weighing up getting shot in a year or so, vs. a £2k bill when it fails out of warranty. It's a good family car otherwise (if unexciting).
I don't know what changed, maybe they changed the tech, or maybe it was because the 2020 car is an automatic so it spends its life rumbling around at 1200rpm.
We just never needed to do a frequent long run before, but now I'm weighing up getting shot in a year or so, vs. a £2k bill when it fails out of warranty. It's a good family car otherwise (if unexciting).