Ideas for building Milky's Garden Arcade?

[Milky]

Gents,

Sick of having my cabs out in the garage, exposed to temperature fluctuations and the like. I was going to convert part or all of it but the wife is dead set against it so I've been looking at other options. I'm steering clear of the Billyoh Summerhouse/Log Cabin idea as I've heard nothing but bad things about damp, mould and p*ss poor security so started looking at the next level (just above sheds but below extensions). Was wondering what you guys thought of something like this (the larger 2m by 3m one):
http://www.oecogardenrooms.co.uk/garden-pods.html
http://www.oecogardenrooms.co.uk/downloads/OecoGardenPods.pdf

It's not cheap but I can't see anything obviously wrong with the build and should be big and safe enough for 4 cabs (possibly 4 + one pinball). Has anyone done something similar and would they recommend it? Really scratching my head now

Milky2013-09-28 14:53:02

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Ho Lee Fuk
9 Large?????
Looks pretty an all but I'm sure you could get a builder to knock you up something similar for half the price?

 

[ZedEx48K]

Foundation, aerated blocks, stucco on one side, insulation on the other, waaaaaaaay cheaper!

 

[Milky]

Yeah, I'm starting to think that too tbh. Works out at over almost 2 large per square metre! My minds eye played tricks too as I ain't fitting 4 cabs in that space, let alone a pin too. Superbug and Boot Hill are proper fat-asses

 

[pulstar]

Looks nice, but like others have said probably get someone to build you something similar with insulation etc. much cheaper.

 

[IndyJones]

Well they do look nice until I saw the price, it does seem a lot of money to pay, as said above I reckon maybe try & find a friendly local builder & ask them for a few ideas/prices, we once found a decent builder once, they do exist, sorry I can't resist, they are not all cowboys although if one turned up on horseback & addressed you as Howdy Partner,you'd probably give him the job straight away

 

[Milky]

Well they do look nice until I saw the price, it does seem a lot of money to pay, as said above I reckon maybe try & find a friendly local builder & ask them for a few ideas/prices, we once found a decent builder once, they do exist, sorry I can't resist, they are not all cowboys although if one turned up on horseback & addressed you as Howdy Partner,you'd probably give him the job straight away

I would have mixed feelings about the situation, yes.

 

[ben76]

You could build something like this...

- Ben

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Yeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaa

 

[guddler]

I'd say they're not as bad value for money as people are making out.

Mine is 5m x 4m and was built locally. The basic structure cost me somewhere in the region of £7k to £8k. Ground works and fencing pushed that up to in the region of £16k

But see here's the thing. For the £7k-£8k, that included celotex insulation all round and indeed in the floor. It included two double glazed PVCu windows and a double stable door (not PVCu). I was using this as my office and I quickly found that the door was a major point of draft and cold so that had to be replaced with a PVCu one which added £1100 (all my double glazing was done in brown which is not cheap). And then, even after that, after two years I found it too cold to use as an office in the winter so I've had to move all my work into the tiny spare room in the house and the office, which is now a dedicated games room and workshop doesn't get used much so it was an expensive mistake realistically.

So the main point I'd suggest is, look into how warm it's going to be in the winter and remember that electric heating costs a damn fortune these days (heating my shed doubles my electric bill in the winter months - just when the prices are high). You are also going to need a lot of extra sockets from the standard 4!

 

[Milky]

Thanks G. I'm restricted as to what I can do with <quote> "all my crap"

. Any extension will be for living space only, doesn't want the garage converted and doesn't mind an external building but can't be more than around 2m x 3 (poss. 4). As you say, once you are looking at separate building, heating costs sky rocket as they are isolated from the main building. What a conundrum!

 

[guddler]

Done properly it's not cheap whatever way you do it, but if you've got the kind of money you were originally looking at in the first couple of links then you should be able to do something good whatever way you do it.

From my experience the priority should be on minimising heating costs. That said, I was using mine as an office and I was a software engineer at the time, so effectively sitting still all day. That gets cold very quickly! If you're up there doing games stuff it's not half as bad.

 

[RGP]

Divorce sounds cheaper and generates more space.

I can understand why the wife wouldn't want an extension to be an arcade but how much time does she spend in the garage to complain about that?

I think she lost a fan at "all my crap".

 

[Milky]

... to add context, she is only joking when she says that dude.

Anyhoo, I'm just working on the basis that an insulated room with very little heating is safer than a draughty garage that might encourage damp. Or would maintaining a temp above a certain level be critical too? I mean, how cold could one of these rooms get in the winter? They"re not too clear on this on the various websitesMilky2013-09-28 19:07:59

 

[adebov]

As for how cold any unheated external building will get is purely down to its insulation.

If it has none, it will get down to ambient temperature.

Better insulation will slow the rate of temperature fall (retaining some heat from the last time it was warm enough to not cause board problems) but no insulation will prevent a room getting below a problem level. You must have some form of heating!

Minimum storage temperatures (i.e. without power on) is typically down below zero.
Operating temperature (unless the board is built for harsh environments) tends to be zero or above (if it's warm enough to play games in there, your boards will be OK).

However... It's not normally temperature which is the real problem, but the "dewpoint" (the temperature at which the moisture in the air will condense on any surface at, or below, the air temperature).
At this point condensation will start to form on the boards.

As an example; the current outside temperature is 15°C and the humidity is 68%rH. A psychrometric chart will tell you the dewpoint is 9°C. So; if the air temperature falls below 9°C condensation will form on any surface.

Therefore you need to keep the temperature, in your outside arcade, above 9°C. This will prevent condensation forming and your boards will be safe.

HOWEVER; dewpoint is not a constant, so the 9°C minimum is also not a constant.

In the depths of winter, in southern England, the dewpoint can be as low as 1 or 2°C (sometimes it's below zero) but in the summer it can higher than 20°C.

What you really need is a dewpoint sensor to switch the heating on just above dewpoint.

Unfortunately dewpoint sensors are bloody expensive.

Fortunately; as the temperature falls (closer to the dewpoint level) the relative humidity rises and when we hit dewpoint the relative humidity is 100%rH (i.e. the air cannot contain any moisture).

So we could protect an arcade simply by having a "humidistat" connected to an electric heater, set the humidistat around 95%rH (because the switching differential and accuracy are a bit crap for this type of device) to ensure the heat is on before we get to 100%rH.

This device (the RH-SH-1RE) costs £48 plus VAT and delivery will do the job, except it can only switch a resistive load of 5A and an inductive load of 0.2A, so it will need to be connected to a contactor or relay if you're switching a fan heater, or if the panel or tubular heater is larger than 1kW.

Set it at 95%rH and you're good to go. The heater will cut in, raise the temperature (which will lower the relative humidity and switch the heater off - thus the heater will cycle on & off - the time on & off will be related to your level of insulation - more insulation means the heater will be on for a shorter time, keeping running costs at a minimum).

EDIT:

Maplins currently have a wall mounted 1.5kW panel heater on offer for £60.

If your room is very well insulated you may get away with a 60w tubular heater.

With current electricity prices you need to keep the running time to a minimum (e.g. if a 60w heater is left on 24/7 from October to March it'll cost around £35. A 1.5kw heater, in a poorly insulated external building, will cost over £800 if left on 24/7 throughout the winter).

So you can see, good insulation and a humidistat will pay for themselves very quickly!!!

adebov2013-09-28 20:17:44

 

[RGP]

adebov is spot on.

If you had a brick built garage then insulating etc would be less cost than building from scratch, however the door is the problem area.

Muddymusic and Purity both have garage conversions that I know of.

I keep all mine in the two apartments, the first is where I mainly live so the heating is on anyway, although the insulation feel substandard for a newbuild.

The second place has no heating currently and will be getting convection based panel heaters to keep the edge off as it'll be in use but not constantly.

I'm very concerned about the preservation of my machines in excess environments.

I know someone who has their machines in the garage as they've been banned from the house and have to remove all chassis and pcb's over winter. The cash pot for insulation keeps being drained by unneccesary laminate flooring replacement and redecoration of unused rooms in the main house.

 

[Milky]

Thanks both, I'll keep this in mind. I've called in some favours this evening and got the number of a decent builder in the area. Will report progress later in the week

 

[Muppz]

I'd say they're not as bad value for money as people are making out.

Mine is 5m x 4m and was built locally. The basic structure cost me somewhere in the region of £7k to £8k. Ground works and fencing pushed that up to in the region of £16k

Guddler will your guy come North? just been quoted best part of £33K on a 28.5M2, I priced it up just materials and concrete base with my trade accounts at £5k, I don't begrudge anyone a living but £28k labour for 2-3 weeks work is cloud cuckoo land. Counter quote was £8k up to the DPC.

 

[Retroruss]

I have a log cabin and have had my cabs in for 3 years now, I have had no problem with damp, I did insulate the floor though as it was being built. You could also insulate the roof, which I might do next year.

If you don't mind the expense fit some electric tubular bar heaters or some oil filled rads as these are better on energy consumption.

But I have to say a brick constructed build would be the best way to go.

 

[Sciddleybop]

There's a thread running on pinball info at the mo called "op man cave part 2" where the fellar has just built a cabin in his garden for pins. Loads of pics and info which might help