Juno First Boot Leg

NivagSwerdna

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Oh dear... I seem to have angered the philmurr gods.... better fix it quick...

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Normally I would put some UV cure superglue over the top but it seems reasonably safe. Almost as good as a bought one.

I do have some life from the board...

Screenshot 2025-03-11 21-15-10.png
The image is very intermittent... and obviously not right... but I guess it might not go in the bin just yet.
I recently bought my next board to fix.... so need to get this one done!
 
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NivagSwerdna

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To stop going around in circles I figured I should properly document some of this...

So marking up a grid on the board for reference in removeable white pen....

PXL_20250314_120926479.jpg

Partial schematic of video section...
JunoFirstBoot_VideoCounters.png
The fact the image above is squeezed in the vertical direction by 4-ish should be a big clue to the problem and normally I would just suspect E18, D18 and D17 since that's where 128V flows... but it seems more subtle than that... Let me re-socket the chips and make sure I haven't broken too many traces and then re-think. All the removed devices test good so they may as well go back.
 

NivagSwerdna

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OK... time to give this another go...

I rather rashly decided to remove and test all the DRAM... (if I had bothered to read the log above I probably would not have done this since quite a lot of the frame buffer obviously works)... anyway I was ****ed off with all the DRAM that made my recent Tutankham repair so annoying so I don't feel too bad...

Before... 16x 4116...

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Now this is quite fun...
After...

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The PCB markings are quite interesting.... 8116 not 4116... I've never come across 8116 (and still haven't!)

Seems a 8116 is a single rail 5V version of 4116... (Some 8116 are 5V, some are not... Check the exact model and datasheet!)

There actually seem to be some on EBAY.... "[20pcs] MB8116E 16KBit DRAM DIP16C"

It's almost tempting to get some just for fun.

Anyway...

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So mostly good... 4 duds...

Now do I replace with my static equivalent board... socket and replace the 12 working and use 4 spares... or go rogue and order some 8116s!
 
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NivagSwerdna

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Well you learn something every day...

Those 8116 chips on EBay are not single rail!
Some 8116 are just 5V but some have the same power requirements as a 4116.
However the 8116 is a drop in replacement for a 4116 and consumes approx 50% of the power.

Not a bad price either... Just ordered 20 off to play with
 

NivagSwerdna

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Well there's an afternoon of my life I'll never get back... oh man these things take so much time...

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Don't ask me if those are all the original chips... because I might scream and start sobbing. :)
Need to clear some space and then restart the repair... (have to put my original K084 back in another board because I extracted it for comparison recently)...
 

NivagSwerdna

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OK... one year later... thought I might try and have another go...

Firstly... I made a change in November 2024-ish...

Was...

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and I bodged...
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was I insane? When I compare to the Tutankham Bootleg...
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Here the two pin 2's are definitely not wired together... there's an inverter between them.. I was obviously barking up the wrong tree.. better put that back before I go again...
... I did plug the board in and I'm getting nothing so back to the drawing board... will fix that first.

(I must have been hallucinating around posts 86 to 88... better undo that and start again!)

Back to square 1...

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Plug it in and see what is going on...
 
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NivagSwerdna

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Well if people are interested... a quick diversion into Konami 081 Theory of Operation...

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Juno First and Tutankham have a 4116 DRAM based Video Frame Buffer and being DRAM it needs refresh and being 4116's it needs row and column addresses each 7 bits wide. On the legit items this co-ordination is provided by a Konami 081 custom but on the bootlegs it is done in 74 series logic. Interesting the implementations do seem to differ between the bootlegs... but more of that later.
The Konami 081 (or equivalent) basically divides time into 4 sections repeatedly. The first is CPU access... here MXB is low allowing the CPU to drive the address bus. MXA is flipped half way through to split the 14 bits into two pairs of 7 bits and these are loaded on the falling edges of RAS and CAS. During the second half the Video counters drive the address bus and the same effect is achieved. So the video reads and the CPU read/writes are interleaved. The whole video read cycle goes around fast enough that the DRAM stays refreshed (all it needs is a read).
The timing of the edges of MXA, MXB, RAS and CAS relative to each other are critical and that's what I am working on currently...
What is interesting is that if this were pure logic in the implementation then the edges would not line up correctly and this is what I am investigating currently... I think this is the purpose of the 300pF capacitor and I suspect my problem is the specific 74LS161 I have swapped... the 300pF acts as an edge delay but is dependent on the input impedance of the counter (to form an RC circuit)... but I am reverse engineering as I go so it's a slow process.
And I have to find the 300pF I removed a year ago... must have put it somewhere!
 

Retroman839

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74ls fires faster than Konami’s 081 custom and the caps slow it down ..
10-15ns

Is this the

small capacitor tacked directly onto Pin 7 of a 74LS161 counter to ground, which manually drags down the duty cycle of the pixel clock to stabilize the core loop.?
 

NivagSwerdna

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I think one of my problems is voltage droop... I can get 5.6V at the ribbon cable but this is dropping to 3.9V at the far bottom right hand corner... my 4116s are running VERY hot but I know they do...

Could this be power supply? Presumably it is not since I can get 5.6V to the board.

Maybe the 4116s (and the CPU) which are running very hot are stealing my volts?

I'm tempted to replace the 4116 with something less power hungry but that is quite extreme
 

Georgian2

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I think one of my problems is voltage droop... I can get 5.6V at the ribbon cable but this is dropping to 3.9V at the far bottom right hand corner... my 4116s are running VERY hot but I know they do...

Could this be power supply? Presumably it is not since I can get 5.6V to the board.

Maybe the 4116s (and the CPU) which are running very hot are stealing my volts?

I'm tempted to replace the 4116 with something less power hungry but that is quite extreme
Most likely one or more are shorted and draw a lot of power. If they are not socketed, you may snip the vcc pin starting with the most hot one and see when the vcc is rising up... Quick but not so nice.
 
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