neo-geo-mvs
Active member
Cheers, will leave any selling until April. Been selling off some Blu-rays, trading cards and games so about 5 items a week on a "good week", not high value but £5/£10/£15/£20 items soon add up...
Tax on £1000 side hustle
- Thread starter sukhbir
- Start date
Cheers, will leave any selling until April. Been selling off some Blu-rays, trading cards and games so about 5 items a week on a "good week", not high value but £5/£10/£15/£20 items soon add up...
John Bennett
Senior Member
I know the articles are unclear, but it can't surely trigger on a money threshold as low as £1-2k for one transaction though, can it?
Otherwise you flog a car on eBay and you'll get a letter telling to you register for a self assessment, which would result in widespread chaos, especially as 99.99% would blatently not be trading.
Ah, I did dread the inspection when I had a second home - I was always petrified I'd filled something in wrong. It would also sit much better if there were more examples of stopping high-profile tax evasion.
edit: note- a second home I had before I met the wife, which I couldn't sell, so had to rent out to avoid losing my life savings, I ain't that rich
John Bennett
Senior Member
I can certainly get it when people say paying an accountant can save you far more money than the advisor costs you.
Well, unless you're Sting.
Well, unless you're Sting.
Yeah this is simply a quick automated method to cream off the 'fat' as it were and save the HMRC systems getting drowned in all online transactions.
However, to those that have been auto-reported, HMRC can apply AI pattern searching to link say high expense purchases that your stated income could not normally afford. Google HMRC Connect for a bit of light bedtime reading.
It all gets very wishywashy. The advice is to contact HMRC directly and have a chat.
Or get a financial advisor / accountant - but many of those won't even be up to speed with the developments yet.
There are specific examples that might be relevant to us arcade and retrogaming collectors:
www.gov.uk
As David is buying and selling models so he can make a profit, he is is likely to be classified as trading."
and
As these are her personal possessions she is unlikely to be trading, but she was able to check the guidance on GOV.UK to find out if she needed to tell HMRC about the income."
So out of interest I followed the HMRC guidance:
How did you receive your additional income? Sold goods
Did you only sell personal possessions? Yes
Have you sold a personal possession for £6000 or more? No (Outrun DLX is not for sale)
You do not need to tell HMRC about this income
You do not need to pay tax on personal possessions you sold for less than £6,000.
So the real questions are:
1. What is a personal possession?
HMRC states: "Personal possessions are physical items that belong to you, such as clothes, furniture or jewellery.
Items that you bought with the intention of selling to make a profit are not classed as personal possessions."
2. If the online platforms auto-report someone being over selling limits, how does a user explain or prove they are selling personal possessions / old unwanted hobby items or junk vs. items being 'traded'?
I still haven't found a straight clearcut answer on that one! I suspect they would look at purchases, as well as frequency, and the total amount of similar items over the year.
Oh and for cars and houses.... if it's your primary car or primary home and you sell it, it's a possession and you are exempt from any tax whatsoever.
However, if you're selling other cars than your main one or 2nd houses, then the taxman awaits.
However, to those that have been auto-reported, HMRC can apply AI pattern searching to link say high expense purchases that your stated income could not normally afford. Google HMRC Connect for a bit of light bedtime reading.
It all gets very wishywashy. The advice is to contact HMRC directly and have a chat.
Or get a financial advisor / accountant - but many of those won't even be up to speed with the developments yet.
There are specific examples that might be relevant to us arcade and retrogaming collectors:
Check if you need to tell HMRC about your income from online platforms
Find out if you need to declare income from selling personal possessions, goods or services online, creating online content or renting out property using digital platforms.
"The model car collector
David collects model cars. He sometimes buys and sells them but also looks for swaps. The swaps are designed to complete sets which David knows will be more valuable as a set than as individuals. When he has a complete set, he offers it for sale, often at a sizeable profit.As David is buying and selling models so he can make a profit, he is is likely to be classified as trading."
and
"Cash in the attic
Sally clears out her attic and decides to sell her unwanted items online. This is a one-off activity for Sally, and the items sold are for less or the same as the original purchase price.As these are her personal possessions she is unlikely to be trading, but she was able to check the guidance on GOV.UK to find out if she needed to tell HMRC about the income."
So out of interest I followed the HMRC guidance:
How did you receive your additional income? Sold goods
Did you only sell personal possessions? Yes
Have you sold a personal possession for £6000 or more? No (Outrun DLX is not for sale)
You do not need to tell HMRC about this income
You do not need to pay tax on personal possessions you sold for less than £6,000.
So the real questions are:
1. What is a personal possession?
HMRC states: "Personal possessions are physical items that belong to you, such as clothes, furniture or jewellery.
Items that you bought with the intention of selling to make a profit are not classed as personal possessions."
2. If the online platforms auto-report someone being over selling limits, how does a user explain or prove they are selling personal possessions / old unwanted hobby items or junk vs. items being 'traded'?
I still haven't found a straight clearcut answer on that one! I suspect they would look at purchases, as well as frequency, and the total amount of similar items over the year.
Oh and for cars and houses.... if it's your primary car or primary home and you sell it, it's a possession and you are exempt from any tax whatsoever.
However, if you're selling other cars than your main one or 2nd houses, then the taxman awaits.
Last edited:
John Bennett
Senior Member
I think for many it'll be about what you do if you get the 'nudge letter' 'cos you've set off the algorithm alarm. Ignoring it doesn't seem the smartest move.
Hopefully it is just a simple phone call to explain, as suggested earlier on here. Not that a tax return is a nightmare if you find you have to complete one, it's just a bit of a chore.
Hopefully it is just a simple phone call to explain, as suggested earlier on here. Not that a tax return is a nightmare if you find you have to complete one, it's just a bit of a chore.
Hope so i got shed loads of crap to sell, most is brand new though so assume it would raise flags.
God knows , this stuff depresses me.
Dave.
Exactly, If your selling items you've had for years which is everything I own pretty much and decide to sell it now as I want space back rather than junk everywhere, I'm not tradingYeah this is simply a quick automated method to cream off the 'fat' as it were and save the HMRC systems getting drowned in all online transactions.
However, to those that have been auto-reported, HMRC can apply AI pattern searching to link say high expense purchases that your stated income could not normally afford. Google HMRC Connect for a bit of light bedtime reading.
It all gets very wishywashy. The advice is to contact HMRC directly and have a chat.
Or get a financial advisor / accountant - but many of those won't even be up to speed with the developments yet.
There are specific examples that might be relevant to us arcade and retrogaming collectors:
Check if you need to tell HMRC about your income from online platforms
Find out if you need to declare income from selling personal possessions, goods or services online, creating online content or renting out property using digital platforms.
"The model car collector
David collects model cars. He sometimes buys and sells them but also looks for swaps. The swaps are designed to complete sets which David knows will be more valuable as a set than as individuals. When he has a complete set, he offers it for sale, often at a sizeable profit.
As David is buying and selling models so he can make a profit, he is is likely to be classified as trading."
and
"Cash in the attic
Sally clears out her attic and decides to sell her unwanted items online. This is a one-off activity for Sally, and the items sold are for less or the same as the original purchase price.
As these are her personal possessions she is unlikely to be trading, but she was able to check the guidance on GOV.UK to find out if she needed to tell HMRC about the income."
So out of interest I followed the HMRC guidance:
How did you receive your additional income? Sold goods
Did you only sell personal possessions? Yes
Have you sold a personal possession for £6000 or more? No (Outrun DLX is not for sale)
You do not need to tell HMRC about this income
You do not need to pay tax on personal possessions you sold for less than £6,000.
So the real questions are:
1. What is a personal possession?
HMRC states: "Personal possessions are physical items that belong to you, such as clothes, furniture or jewellery.
Items that you bought with the intention of selling to make a profit are not classed as personal possessions."
2. If the online platforms auto-report someone being over selling limits, how does a user explain or prove they are selling personal possessions / old unwanted hobby items or junk vs. items being 'traded'?
I still haven't found a straight clearcut answer on that one! I suspect they would look at purchases, as well as frequency, and the total amount of similar items over the year.
They just want more people to shit there pants like my mate at work and start telling them they need to pay more tax because they sold some things on ebay
I remember seeing an ebayers listings years back, he was clearly pissed off lol because he put on his listings he had to register as a business seller because he'd sold so many items and ebay said your a business, forget the figure but sure it was the amount of items he was selling and not the cash amount, think it was Retro games and said they were just from his own collection
This is why these criminals in government don't like cash, they can't see all the stuff you bought from the car boot sale last week and selling it on ebay following week, well unless the seller is using card machine at the car boot, if they get there way and delete cash everyone will be totally screwed
Then You have the likes of Matt Handycock and Sir Graham Brady Scum that are not MP's for the £85k Wage, it's all the extra money they make on side, wonder if all that gets declared or probably goes off shore account that's not taxed
More like HMRC are using AI and bots to catch tax dodgers. Probably.
Probably?
www.taxassist.co.uk
What data does HMRC use to investigate your business and personal finances?
The information HMRC holds on individuals and business has never been as comprehensive or readily accessible as it is now. Given the rise in social media and online data storage usage, HMRC is constantly increasing its surveillance and monitoring of our electronic footprint.
www.taxassist.co.uk
Probably?
What data does HMRC use to investigate your business and personal finances?
The information HMRC holds on individuals and business has never been as comprehensive or readily accessible as it is now. Given the rise in social media and online data storage usage, HMRC is constantly increasing its surveillance and monitoring of our electronic footprint.
People creating their own digital prison
It's all great timing isn't it, More people struggling with the cost of living introduced buy climate/covid. more technology to help them collect all the data they need and using AI to do it all just when more and more people needing to earn more money to live or keep the lifestyle they had, many turning to selling items on all these online platforms... bang we'll get some more money off people. If you haven't worked out after last 4 years the Government don't care about you one bit
2 of the guys I work with keep saying they need to earn more money, one just got house before interest rates rises, other 38 still living with his mum, i've told him where I should of saved more money when younger and could of been retired easy by 50, but he just constantly spends money on going out, expensive cloths etc.
Its all about getting people to Consume, buying things you don't need, eating out all time or Takeaways and all while people paying off massive mortgages and rented cars
I think you'll enjoy a good read of https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ Bods
I've sold shitloads, but also bought shitloads. I've rarely (if ever) made a profit as it's just me buying arcadey things and selling them when I've got bored with them. I don't have invoices though, will I be able to prove no profit by things like PMs and emails from sellers, married up with dates to paypal purchase transactions or bank transfers? What a ball-ache.
John Bennett
Senior Member
You'd like to hope that if you did something this year to get their attention, you wouldn't be expected to have an audit trail for the last few years, considering you blatantly weren't trading.
I'd have hoped they'd only do that if they saw evidence of a much larger scale tax evasion.
Worth keeping a record of sales going forward though, I suppose.
I'd have hoped they'd only do that if they saw evidence of a much larger scale tax evasion.
Worth keeping a record of sales going forward though, I suppose.
I remember stumbling across that website a few years ago, amazing that it's still there! I didn't fully understand at the time, but I've since come to realise that pretty much everything the guy on that website mentions about saving is correct.I think you'll enjoy a good read of https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ Bods
Some food for thought......
A work colleague in his early 30's took out a 35 year mortgage a few years back. At the current rate of interest he's currently paying approx 3k interest per year.
When his low 1.2% ish rate rises to approx 4% next year, his monthly mortgage payment will rise approx £400 per month and then he'll be paying approx 9.5k interest per year. Obviously he'll be paying less interest as the mortgage reduces, but with a 30 year mortgage remaining it's unfortunately gonna be very tough for him for the foreseeable future.
When I was younger, a 2.8% rise in interest rates seemed insignificant as that sort of increase on something like a couple of thousand pounds worth of debt isn't too crushing, but on something like a mortgage, that rise in interest can easily crush finances and turn people into wage slaves for the remainder of their working life.
Back in the day I didn't care about the things Mr Mustache talks about and I got myself into a bit of debt so I could spend tomorrows money today. In the finish I was still paying off the CC for the clothes/gadgets I bought that were now ready for the bin. Thankfully I got out of that mess and I don't live beyond my means these days, if that means going without then so be it.
Being taxed even more on selling items that potentially someone could still paying interest on, that really takes the biscuit man. I know some people get themselves into their own messes which can be difficult to get out, but it is possible to get out the other side in one piece. Quite a few of the younger generation are buying things they can't afford to impress people who don't care and the only winner are the custodians of this wonderful system that doesn't care about anything but themselves.
CMYKhazi-Dan
Saikyo Style 💪
I currently pay over £10k interest on my mortgage per year. Still cheaper than renting, sadly for the folk who can't get/want to buy a house and are stuck in the mostly shitfest situation that is renting a place to live 😔
Looks good thatI think you'll enjoy a good read of https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ Bods
My parents got rid of their mortgage when they bought the 2nd house by selling one my dad had improved and buying next one that needed renovating again
When all my school mates were getting brand new BMX's I had my 2nd hand Grifter my dad did up for me, at times we did feel left out, all mates with brand new Spectrum's, Commodore 64's but 2nd hand one didn't bother me, my dad even got the Scalextric set cheap NEW because transformer was missing so he used train power supply he had, he doesn't even remember that lol, now I see it as the best financial learning curve you could have as I hardly own anything new
When I bought my house I had hardly any money spare to go out on weekend drinking with mates (they all lived with parents still) so to be able to go out I had to drive them lot into town and i'd have couple of bottles early evening and no drinks in nightclub, literally had about £20 a week left after all my out goings with current job
When I got made redundant from that I didn't even bother signing on and just chilled for a few months until getting the job i'm still doing and I went from earning about 9k a year to 12k but load of overtime so I was actually earning 20k a year which was early 2000's still came out with more money then some months than I do now and I had company car, £1,600-1,700 a month looking at old bank statements so I could save 1k a month easy and still go out drinking again so I saved all my money to pay off the mortgage, was aiming for my 30th birthday but it was a year or two after, once that paid I could save money even faster, was only £260-300 a month anyway
Then the arcade collecting started and I'd already kind of planned to have a new garage built and probably kitchen extension so saved my money again for next few years to get the extension done for the ever growing arcade machines, then saved for loft conversion, then mate built games room as i'd filled the extension, still cost 1000's in materials, then saved money again and had side extension as i'd filled all that space, just when i'd broke golden rule and spent pretty much everything I had we got moved to another company and lost the company car so I had to buy my own, had to get a loan for 2k to buy one, paid off in no time though but it's easy to get back in debt, I'd just got into habit of spending all the money on the house and carried on buying anything I wanted while savings never increased so had to break out of that cycle
It's easier when you don't have kids or expensive wife but if more had done same as me, you could have kids in 30s and be loving life then instead of being in the System's Rat Race where they want you, look at many now, Both working to pay mortgage, pay child care, what was wrong with having less and spending time with children as they grow up
Anyway, bit off topic I know but I just think most have it all wrong, I'm not bothered about impressing people, I don't have anything new, apart from odd CD/Bluray I can't think of anything I buy new, oh a new Kettle the other year lol and new under wear as I ain't getting those 2nd hand
I have loads I need to sell but it's all the junk I've bought when I used to look on ebay all night, buying old toys I used to have, started buying old Technical Lego sets like Car Chassis and space stuff, wish I hadn't bothered now as i haven't time for any of it so gotta sell all of that and tons more, not to make money just get back all the space taken up, then I can store the stuff I want
I've got AOC monitor in the loft, 23" LED one in box with broken screen it was free, I bought same model to replace once in lounge, 2nd hand of course as I thought if it goes wrong, I have spares to fix it, never gone wrong though but that's taking up storage space, so time for it to come apart, keep pcbs parts and base and bin the rest, there worthless now anyway being so cheap to buy another