How many of us are still out there working?

Vamino

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The repercussions of the lockdown will affect much more people than the flu ever could have.

Being under prolonged house arrest could potentially turn the UK into a persistent police state.

Lord Sumption says it so elequently, I agree with this man 100%.


So given all the information at hand, and not just what the mainstream media are saying but also taking into consideration what independent scientists are saying we should have the freedom to come to our own conclusion.

People can either carry on with their lives using common sense and respect for other people who are in the high risk category, or people can live in perpetual fear with yearly vaccines and country shut downs as and when the government/police state say so.

I'll take my chances with the flu thanks.
 

John Bennett

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I was with him until he said the Prime Minister had ‘mild symptoms or none at all’. Presumably that was a little while ago.

It’s a balancing act - people should be able to go outdoors and I can’t blame folk for treating themselves to visiting a beauty spot after a week at home, walking the kids around the block until they know every rainbow in every window.
But we can’t go back to allowing mass, cramped gatherings. The death rate from this is already immense (see the weekly UK death graph - it’s more than doubled) and we can’t hack a second wave.

I feel for those who don’t have the choice at work and are forced into risky situations.
 

neo-geo-mvs

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I can't see anywhere showing Lord Sumption's background in science / BMA?

We'll see where we all are in 1 years time.

Those who go about their business as usual, good luck to you.

neo-geo-mvs2020-05-17 11:41:10
 

_Matt_

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Vamino said:
People can either carry on with their lives using common sense and respect for other people who are in the high risk category, or people can live in perpetual fear with yearly vaccines and country shut downs as and when the government/police state say so.

I'll take my chances with the flu thanks.

Where your argument completely falls apart is the fact you have given only 2 options there but there are of course many more.

Like option 3 for instance were people carry on with their lives exactly how they used to because life is hard enough and they can't afford to take on any other worries. I've been seeing evidence of that all around me the last 2 weeks.

It is all common sense but unfortunately having common sense is extremely uncommon.
 

neo-geo-mvs

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Send Lord Sumption to a secondary school to teach History/Politics to a class of 30 students. See if he will survive at 71 years of age. He could die of old age/illness anytime so a month or two/or Year earlier makes no difference if it saves the economy!!!

He is old anyway, who cares!! If you follow his line of thought people over 70 don't matter, or those with underlying health conditions.

I see absolutely no reason why the government would impose lockdown and destroy the economy if it were not to prevent the death of people.

If makes no sense and the conspiracy theories really come from illogical people imoneo-geo-mvs2020-05-17 12:04:39
 

69er

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sadly we are still closed and will be for some time yet as ops & suppliers / repairs / sales amusements to arcades pubs leisure centres & holiday parks ALL still shut especially in North Wales

I may have wrote in another topic my car used for work/site visits etc has done just 4 miles since its MOT 30/01/20 and 2 of those are return from the MOT station ………. wifes car is on full fuel since march just goes local shops twice a week …………. van not moved since March 18th when it last came back from Rhyl and filled on return SO I CAN'T EVEN take advantage of the lowered fuel prices at present ………. not used any for 8 -10 weeks or more

our 3 kids have worked through tho 1x doctor 1 x bakery cleaner and 1x teacher (reduced hours/days as its only been children of essential workers and vulnerable attending) they all live away 2 at 7-8 miles fairly local but Dr. is 250 miles away in Glasgow

However the garden looks fabulous considering unable buy fresh plants ……. all next winter logs split and stacked...…. just WISH I could get motivated and into my home workshop STILL cluttered lots of jobs pending half done lots of mess …………… I am so lazy!!!!!!!!!! been sat here on ukvac quite a few days so ...NOT totally wasted time
smiley36.gif
its very educating ( if I sat in front of TV the wife would have a paint brush in my right hand a scraper in left and a LIST OF JOBS wedged in my mouth ) so its all research for the half done jobs in the workshop ……… sshhhh !!!!

JUST ADDING this is so strange as when the arcade is open and busy I work 7 days a week MID APRIL - MID OCTOBER with change/ repairs / many pub visits repairs & coin counting/ movements of machines/ reclothing pooltables and snooker /. sales deliveries of pool and misc.. even a 3-4 day/week demand in winter so a complete HALT is very weird ………… But also I was a farm manager back in the 70s that was virtually 365 days a year...….. so I am used to 'grafting' .........NOT used to being idle like this...

69er2020-05-17 13:09:17
 

Vamino

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I've read, watched and listened to both sides of the argument. Some of it is factual stuff that can be cross referenced, and some of it purely propaganda and misinformation. What resonates with me is different to what will resonate with other people. I'm not interested in conspiracies, just facts.

I'm thankful people like Lord Sumption and Robert F Kennedy Jr have spoken out during this situation. The mainstream media isn't helping the situation with their sensationalistic one sided journalism. To me it's not OK for Bill Gates to promote himself to a leading scientist in the field of pandemics, but with that in mind I fully respect people that think Lord Sumption shouldn't have a point of view based on years of dealing with legal matters.

The narrative quickly went from stay at home if you have flu like
symptoms, to we are all gonna die without a miracle vaccine to save the
day. Well I'm not living my life in fear due to a flu virus, but, on the flip side I understand there has to be guidelines. It's not the first time there has been a pandemic, and it wont be the last.

In my opinion the former justice of the supreme court speaks more sense than what the tabloids are currently belching out. And if you want a proper scientist there are plenty speaking facts that are not getting any mention in the mainstream tabloids.

Both the UK and USA governments in their daily press briefings have admitted that the figures for total deaths include people who didn't die from the virus, and a lot of deaths were people that died from other issues but tested positive for having the virus present in their system. Who knows how many of those deaths included tests from the recent batch of innacurate tests purchased from China, the UK government is trying to recoup taxpayers money after Oxford University trials proved them to be innacurate.

If this situation continues without anyone actually listening to any of the scientists that are currently questioning the hysteria then the next phase will probably be a mass lockdown and vaccination of all pets.
 

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Working within the NHS, I have never seen anything like it. We now have empty wards as nobody has been operated on and older people are putting things off, choosing to stay at home where possible. These are the same people who pump money into cafes, garden centres, retail etc. and I can't see a lot of them being quick to go out and socialise again any time soon.

There will no doubt be a second peak leading to another possible lockdown. Wether or not everyone will abide the second time round remains to be seen. I'm really not looking forward to a recession as we leave the EU, and another ten years of austerity. I admit though that the funds will have to come from somewhere, scrapping HS2 would be a good start. If they gave a sh*t about the North they would have built it from the top down anyway
smiley17.gif
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As has been stated, on a positive note the garden is looking stonking!

thermal_treasure2020-05-17 18:50:46
 

John Bennett

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Vamino said:
The narrative quickly went from stay at home if you have flu like
symptoms, to we are all gonna die without a miracle vaccine to save the
day. Well I'm not living my life in fear due to a flu virus, but, on the flip side I understand there has to be guidelines. It's not the first time there has been a pandemic, and it wont be the last.

In my opinion the former justice of the supreme court speaks more sense than what the tabloids are currently belching out. And if you want a proper scientist there are plenty speaking facts that are not getting any mention in the mainstream tabloids.

Both the UK and USA governments in their daily press briefings have admitted that the figures for total deaths include people who didn't die from the virus, and a lot of deaths were people that died from other issues but tested positive for having the virus present in their system. Who knows how many of those deaths included tests from the recent batch of innacurate tests purchased from China, the UK government is trying to recoup taxpayers money after Oxford University trials proved them to be innacurate.

If this situation continues without anyone actually listening to any of the scientists that are currently questioning the hysteria then the next phase will probably be a mass lockdown and vaccination of all pets.

I do think the tabloids have been dreadful, whipping up anger as well as dwelling on the absolute worst.

But I certainly don't want it for me or my family - flu is unpleasant at best, this feels more like Russian roulette. Not everyone knows of their underlying conditions and this thing goes for heart, liver, lungs.... Suppose a lot of my fear is all down to the horror stories, but I hope we find the balance where we can protect ourselves, avoid hospital collapse and limp along until an external factor comes along (mass testing, vaccine, treatment...?).

But the death rates are there to see. 2020 is not a normal year by a huge margin.

deaths.jpg


John Bennett2020-05-17 19:01:19
 

_Matt_

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69er said:
been sat here on ukvac quite a few days so ...NOT totally wasted time
smiley36.gif
its very educating ( if I sat in front of TV the wife would have a paint brush in my right hand a scraper in left and a LIST OF JOBS wedged in my mouth ) so its all research for the half done jobs in the workshop ……… sshhhh !!!!

smiley36.gif


I can certainly identify with that. If I look like I'm relaxing or enjoying myself for more than 10 minutes the wife gives me jobs to do and goes on about how her list of jobs never ends. She seems to forget she spends around 4 hours a day on bloody Facebook.
 

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John Bennett said:
Not everyone knows of their underlying conditions and this thing goes for heart, liver, lungs....

I do know my underlying condition. I have heart disease, and a family history full of heart disease.

Medication is keeping me quite well but the investigative surgery into my condition has ceased due to the outbreak.

If I catch this virus it'll probably finish me off and leave my wife a widow.

I'm doing everything by the book. I just wish everybody else would.

If I die of this I'll be just a little bit miffed!
 

_Matt_

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That's terrible mate, so sorry to hear that. As you say, just keep doing everything you can to stay safe. It's people like yourself and my parents who are over 75 who I shop for that make me determined to do everything as well as I can no matter how much I put myself out. I've spent days now writing a covid risk assessment for my work in my own time as my boss refuses to even think about it as he's to busy and will not change from what he is used to doing. Some peoples selfish attitudes are disgusting.
 

Vamino

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John Bennett said:
Vamino said:
The narrative quickly went from stay at home if you have flu like
symptoms, to we are all gonna die without a miracle vaccine to save the
day. Well I'm not living my life in fear due to a flu virus, but, on the flip side I understand there has to be guidelines. It's not the first time there has been a pandemic, and it wont be the last.

In my opinion the former justice of the supreme court speaks more sense than what the tabloids are currently belching out. And if you want a proper scientist there are plenty speaking facts that are not getting any mention in the mainstream tabloids.

Both the UK and USA governments in their daily press briefings have admitted that the figures for total deaths include people who didn't die from the virus, and a lot of deaths were people that died from other issues but tested positive for having the virus present in their system. Who knows how many of those deaths included tests from the recent batch of innacurate tests purchased from China, the UK government is trying to recoup taxpayers money after Oxford University trials proved them to be innacurate.

If this situation continues without anyone actually listening to any of the scientists that are currently questioning the hysteria then the next phase will probably be a mass lockdown and vaccination of all pets.

I do think the tabloids have been dreadful, whipping up anger as well as dwelling on the absolute worst.

But I certainly don't want it for me or my family - flu is unpleasant at best, this feels more like Russian roulette. Not everyone knows of their underlying conditions and this thing goes for heart, liver, lungs.... Suppose a lot of my fear is all down to the horror stories, but I hope we find the balance where we can protect ourselves, avoid hospital collapse and limp along until an external factor comes along (mass testing, vaccine, treatment...?).

But the death rates are there to see. 2020 is not a normal year by a huge margin.

deaths.jpg

I really feel strongly about how the media have acted during all of this mate. It's been disgusting in my opinion and it has shown well and truly how one sided they can be when it suits them. Eddie large of Little and Large dies, RIP Mr Large, and the newspapers all quote doom
and gloom. But the reality is that he had been suffering from heart
conditions for years. And the media reports that his cause of death was dying 'with' covid 19, not 'from it. Yet he is on the died from Covid 19 list.

Is it such a coincidence that all the media outlets that Rupert Murdoch owns have such a one sided view on this situation, am I a conspiracy theorist for mentioning that fact? It's even more relevent when you state the fact that he profits from vaccines due to his investment portfolio. That's a question for the future generation to ponder over when all of this has been documented into the history books. History has a way of unearthing facts not readily available to the general public.

Flu_deaths.jpg


If you go back even further, the total ongoing chart for winter deaths since 1954 show there are always blips whever there is a bad flu. And my point is, specifically for this flu, is that the stats relating to Covid 19 deaths include deaths where the person didn't actually die from it. So in order to be fair if we show total deaths during specific periods it will eliminate any question of doubt whether more people are dying from this current flu than they have in previous years.

Whenever someone questions what the media says the knee jerk reaction that's programmed into people is that they are a conspiracy theorist, and they believe in aliens and lizard people. Also throw some guilt in there and it ensures people can no longer speak their minds without the fear of emotional and conspiritorial backlash.

Some people over 70 are hard as nails. The place where I worked 30 years ago, the father of the owner was in the 2nd world war and used to work in the factory. His lighter had saved his life from a bullet, he endured terrible conditions during and after the war and many of his mates dies from illness or serious injury. And yet, there he was in his 70 washing his hands in terps after painting brackets, inhaling noxious paint fumes and all sorts. God bless him, he showed me that getting older doesn't necessarily mean becoming a weak old man, but we do need to use common sense as he thought he was indestructible.

Once I had a gist of what was going on I turned off that wailing yelling screaming tabloid noise, searched out for other people perspectives on what was happening and had the pleasure/displeasure to experience all of this insanity first hand on the frontlines so to speak. From the beginning to where we are now, it's amazing to see some people literally being scared to death.

Even if there's a miracle super vaccine, combine that with a diet of fast food, pop and crisps, that vaccine isn't going to save everyone from getting ill if they have an underlying health issue. The slogan to eat 5 a day has gone out the window and it's almost like people are rubbing their hands in glee when people get sick because ultimately someone will profit from it.

It's unfortunate people have died from complications of this flu, and I'm truly sorry for the families involved. But we need to have independant enquiries of the effects of what has been enforced upon the people in order to come up with a solution on what's best going forward. I'm just an engineer, so I don't have the answer, but there are people who are qualified to do that.

2020 may go down as one of the most craziest documented years in human history, I never would have belived it if I had been told this last year!
 

Vamino

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Ropi Jo said:
John Bennett said:
Not everyone knows of their underlying conditions and this thing goes for heart, liver, lungs....

I do know my underlying condition. I have heart disease, and a family history full of heart disease.

Medication is keeping me quite well but the investigative surgery into my condition has ceased due to the outbreak.

If I catch this virus it'll probably finish me off and leave my wife a widow.

I'm doing everything by the book. I just wish everybody else would.

If I die of this I'll be just a little bit miffed!

Sorry to hear of your condition mate.

My Mom has bouts of bad asthma, and if she got anything like pneumonia she would be in a very dire situation. I haven't seen her since all of this started, she is nearly 70.

People in the high risk catagories should follow the current guidelines as it's better to be safe than sorry. Which is why I respect anyones wishes if they don't want me near them. I'm fine with someone getting close to me, well not too close if you know what I mean.

I was due to have an operation to remove a failed tooth extraction due to the risk of perforating my sinus. Now I'm having to live with half a shattered tooth in my mouth, not fun but there are people much worse off than me.
 

tronads

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_Matt_ said:
Have you got something else lined up?

Yeah, got tempted with a salary quite a bit more than I am on now to go back to my previous employer, who made me redundant 5 1/2 years ago. So I am moving back into government IT and away from Logistics IT.

I don't know if I am doing the right thing or not, I will certainly miss my current job which I loved, and I feel bad for my current employer as they definitely invested in me and looked after me with frequent pay rises, promotions and bonuses....but ultimately, with time running out before I want to retire (maybe 10 years left), I have to think about how much more I can earn in that time.

My main worry is catching Covid-19 in the next few months as I will initially have no paid sickness benefits, or potentially worse, no initial death in service benefit.
 

Vamino

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So as we enter phase 2 I hope everyone is still OK.

Is
anyone still furloughed? Or after returning to work have you been told
to stay at home again since Boris gave out his new orders to save us all?

My job entails that I continue to do what I've been doing all throughout this flu, which is to continue to work in public spaces so there's no change for me apart from being ordered to wear a mask. I'm truly grateful to have a stable job during all of this.

I
stay away from mainstream media only dipping into it every now and
again, but after recently dipping my toe into the media bog it's apparent that the fear is being ramped up again by the mainstream media. There's no longer a death rate, it's all about cases now hence these new lockdown measures.

UK_CV_DR.jpg


I wonder if there's a chart for cases of depression because in my
opinion that seems to be the most serious thing we should be focusing on these
days as depression is not a joking matter to be taken lightly.

I visit a lot of cities and towns and the amount of businesses and shops that have closed over the past few months is shocking. From Worcester to Sutton Coldfield to Solihull, sticking stickers over vacant shop windows showing faux fully stocked shops does not hide the fact that peoples lives have been greatly affected by all this.

As controversial as they were to some people at the time, my views have not changed since I posted them 4 months ago. Lord sumption's fears of a police state are starting to become reality which is stirring up some of the population to protest against it.

But, I do have to admit over the past few months I've slowly been stocking up on toilet rolls and rice before the inevitable panic buying starts again. Spending hours queuing up outside supermarkets in the freezing cold isn't something I want to be doing on my day off.

The next 6 months is gonna be interesting.
 

John Bennett

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I'm working from home, but without the kids, so quite fortunate.

I'm still of the view it's entirely real. The deaths always lag the cases and they're going up, and with nothing to break the cycle it'll be up in the thousands. They didn't act soon enough last time.

I appreciate the government has no magic solutions, but I think the communications have been shambolic at best.

I just hope the testing/tracing does dramatically improve and a vaccine comes soon.

We also need guarantees of food deliveries if hundreds of thousands of folk are expected to put themselves under house arrest for 14 days...

The danger now is that people are fed up, so you start to get denial and defiance with the prospect of doing it again.

I also see the argument for just 'living with it', and I don't get it. You can't find and box-up everyone vulnerable and the hospitals wouldn't stand a chance for all those that fall through the net. Plus this thing is very nasty in some cases - permanent after effects look possible. I'd like to hope no-one thinks it's OK to wipe-out hundreds of thousands of people as some warped form of evolution, but I'm not so sure anymore after some of the opinions I've seen
smiley6.gif
.

I think phase 1 was 'you're doing it wrong'. Phase 2 is where it gets unpleasant. Lets hope there's a way out soon.

John Bennett2020-09-24 11:53:25
 
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